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Sun Mar 4 08:37:29 GMT 2012

Rob,

you are on this list now quite a long time. The topic has been under discussion ad nauseam and those papers you ask for have been presented here over and over again. Check the trauma list mail server. Drs. Mattox, Brohi and others have let us take part in their research (and I feel blessed for that).

So the point is not to send those papers again, the point is how cope with our stupid fellow humans and our tendency to keep eminence, 'believe' and tradition over evidence and reason.

Please don't take this personal, it's just from a fellow soul ;-)

Take care

Mathias
-- 
Listen to Kung Fu Tse: don't be silly, be smart - send no HTML mails.

Rob Ojala <Rob.Ojala at cdhb.govt.nz> schrieb:

" keeping in mind while rapid infusing we must be infusing blood products and not fluids."

And another poster talks about caution with fluid administration in recommending a line 

My question is this....
Can someone send the papers that demonstrate this in a compelling enough manner to allow people to be emphatic? 
Many thanks
Rob 

On 4/03/2012, at 5:08 AM, "Staggs, Ray" <Ray.Staggs at heartland-health.com> wrote:

> I was offering a class in our Level II trauma center using the Bellmont infuser, keeping in mind while rapid infusing we must be infusing blood products and not fluids.
> 
> 
> 
> One of our anesthesiologist suggested we add the MAC Two-Lumen Central Venous Kit to our trauma cart. It appears we will need to look at a longer catheter for the obese patient.
> 
> 
> 
> Lumen: Priming Volume Flow Rate
> 
> Distal (9Fr.) no catheter 1.65 cc 33,000 cc/hr
> 
> Distal (9Fr.) with 8 Fr. Catheter 0.90 cc 10,500 cc/hr
> 
> Proximal (12 Ga.) no catheter 0.60 cc 13,000 cc/hr
> 
> 
> 
> *Flow rates stated on the package using normal saline.
> 
> [cid:image001.png at 01CCF925.6BD4DC00]
> 
> 
> 
> Ray Staggs, RN
> 
> Performance Improvement Patient Safety Coordinator
> 
> Trauma Services
> 
> 816-271-6707
> 
> Fax: 816-271-7637
> 
> ray.staggs at heartland-health.com
> 
> 
> 
> DISCLAIMER:
> 
> The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential information intended for the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution is strictly prohibited.
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org [mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of Andrew J Bowman
> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 6:57 PM
> To: Trauma-List [TRAUMA.ORG]
> Subject: Re: CVC for subclavian access in major haemorrhage
> 
> 
> 
> Cordis 9Fr introducer.
> 
> 
> 
> But caution with over zealous fluid resuscitation in trauma.
> 
> 
> 
> Andrew J Bowman
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 2, 2012, at 15:45, Miriam Baruch <miriam.baruch at btinternet.com<mailto:miriam.baruch at btinternet.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> Looking for suggestions for the easiest large bore CVC to insert and use for the purposes of resuscitation in major trauma.
> 
>> 
> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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CVC for subclavian access in major haemorrhage