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Alright, , Lets Call it a Draw

Charles Brault c_brault at yahoo.com
Mon Dec 17 15:28:42 GMT 2012



----- Original Message -----
From: Angelo Giubileo <angelogiubileo at me.com>
To: Trauma-List [TRAUMA.ORG] <trauma-list at trauma.org>
Cc: 
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: Alright, , Lets Call it a Draw

That is what happen in china or I got it wrong?
***************************
Does somebody recall the number of wounded and dead ?

Also
A good trauma system (Not China)
IS purported to cut by half the death rates

Most societies save these lives
Not with Trauma centers
But a merely with a more peacefull and inclusive society (That does not put individualism on an as high pedestal)
Develloped world AND underdevelloped world

But then...

This is the point of the discussion

America DOES have an Excellent police response, EMS & Trauma system

It's all that comes BEFORE the (anticipable) tragedies

Cutting into social programs
WILL not improve the prospect

Maintaining (or increasing) military spending
Without a doubt
Contributes to MORE deaths (not less)

And maintains proudly and loudly
That American society places it's belief and priorities in (BIG) violence 

Glorifying Soldiers
Glorifying what are technicaly, trained murderers

And I am not Naive to think you do not need an efficient (defensive)army


But it has been many years and many trillion of dollar
Where America's Army has been Offensive
In all the sense of the word

How could that money could have been spent better

I do sympathise with politicians that past law based on some ideology and a sincere desire to improve society
This applying equally to the right and the left parties

Three strikes and you are out law, 35 hour work, Qubec language laws, Social security, Medicare, Universal health care, allowing unions, subsidize early child care, food stamps, large military, vaccination... etc.

Nobody knew at the time of legislation, for sure, the ultimate costs, colateral impact and final results

But

BUT

After 20 years WE ALL CAN re-assess these policies
In a pretty near objective manner

Are we doing that
Atre looking enough what other societies are doing (Succesfull or unsuccesfull) ?

Charles



Sent from my iPhone

On 16 Dec 2012, at 22:04, Richard Wigle MD FACS <rlwigle at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I really don't think anyone armed with a knife would be able to inflict multiple lethal wounds on almost 30 people. Hard to put a knife on full auto
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Charles S. Krin <krin135 at aol.com>
> To: trauma-list at trauma.org 
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 7:59 AM
> Subject: Re: Alright, , Lets Call it a Draw
> 
> I was pointing out that guns are not the only things that have been used in massacres.
> 
> and here's some more recent statistics:
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list
> 
> note how far down the list the US is....#28 in the per 100,000 population category
> 
> and again, remove the gang and drug related violence (done by criminals mostly on other criminals, and therefore it's doubtful that any realistic laws will improve those statistics), and the US drops even further, despite the number of firearms in private hands.
> 
> 
> I also posted a link to a 2009 article from the UK on the relative *increase* in gun violence in the UK since the Dunblane laws were passed, and the increase in numbers of armed police patrols.
> 
> 
> Again, the challenge: Show, by the standards of EBM, anywhere in the world where restricting the personal right of self defense has lead to an *increase* in personal safety (eg: a decrease in overall person on person crimes).
> 
> 
> Charles S. Krin, DO
> Retired FM/EM/EMS Physician; Author and Educator
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: john Wood <johnwood237 at msn.com>
> To: Trauma-List [TRAUMA.ORG] <trauma-list at trauma.org>
> Sent: Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:48 am
> Subject: Re: Alright, , Lets Call it a Draw
> 
> 
> British hand gun law is very effective. The gun related crimes which are up most 
> often refer to gun seizures / possession rather than shootings. British Police 
> officers do not routinely make armed patrols only in response to specific 
> threats (despite what tabloids might state). The comparison between US gun crime 
> and UK is hard to see. Not sure how trumpeting school bombings helps the case 
> for not regulating gun possession?
> 
> On 16 Dec 2012, at 12:46, "Charles S. Krin" <krin135 at aol.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Since no one is commenting on how effective the British hand gun control is
> working (gun related crimes are *up* and the Bobbies are now routinely making 
> armed patrols)....here's the 'original' school massacre in the US...
>> 
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
>> 
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Kehoe
>> 
>> Note: no one was killed directly by a fire arm in this incident.
>> 
>> 
>> ck
>> 
>> 
>> Charles S. Krin, DO
>> Retired FM/EM/EMS Physician; Author and Educator
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Scott Beaudoin <medic-sb at hotmail.com>
>> To: trauma-list <trauma-list at trauma.org>
>> Sent: Sun, Dec 16, 2012 1:49 am
>> Subject: RE: Alright, , Lets Call it a Draw
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Blaming the tool?  Guns are designed for the sole purpose of killing.  Using a
> 
>> gun to kill someone is to use is it as it was designed.  Yes, it is a tool. 
> For 
>> killing.  How one makes the jump in logic that fertilizer, fuel, vehicles, 
>> rocks, pencils, etc. should be outlawed or restricted, too, if guns come under
> 
>> more regulation or restriction, is almost beyond comprehension.  How many tons
> 
>> of fertilizer are used for growing food for every milligram used to make a
> bomb?  
>> How many olympic-sized swimming pools could be filled with fuel for every
> ounce 
>> put toward murdering another person?  How many rental vans driven for every
> one 
>> used to kill?
>> 
>> All these things that can be used to kill have purposes other than killing.  
>> Guns do not.  Whether you are hunting an animal for survival or protecting
> your 
>> family, the gun will function with the purpose of killing.  It will not help 
>> corn grow, it will not get the corn to your plate.
>> 
>> Scott Beaudoin, MS-III, NREMT-P
>> 
>>> An obviously psychotic young man shot the legal owner (and his Mom, to 
>>> boot) of a few guns, then committed a horrible act with them.  It 
>>> strikes me that blaming the tool is a poor answer.  Should we have 
>>> banned diesel fuel, fertilizer, or rental vans after the Oklahoma bombing?
>>> 
>>> Respectfully,
>>> 
>>> Larry Torrey RN, EMT-P
>>> EMS Coordinator
>>> Tufts Medical Center
>>> Boston, MA
>> 
>>                        
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