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Thu May 7 21:49:50 BST 2009

I think the "old-school" type of surgical training is some sort of natural
selection. Residents who could not cope with the long hours, mental strain,
intellectual rigor, or general pace of surgical residency then including
restrictions on family life and personal lifestyle, would opt out and shift
to other specialty training programs.

Jose Luis J. Danguilan, MD

On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 3:28 AM, Gross, Ronald <
Ronald.Gross at baystatehealth.org> wrote:

> Sohail,
>
> I must in the strongest of terms disagree with the statement " that's the
> trainer's fault and has nothing to do with the hours".  If it takes five
> hours to teach someone to do a procedure, and the student is only present
> for 3, then I would suggest that the trainer has not a damn thing to do with
> the student's inability to commit the necessary time to learning.  I have to
> say that if you have the view you have, you have been trained in a program
> that needs a re-visitation by the RRC, and you need to think about training
> somewhere else.  I have been a faculty member at a couple of fairly
> well-known programs, and I have NEVER seen the sort of attitude that you are
> alleging.
>
> I am very sorry that I have to say this, but it sounds to me like you are
> having a bit of difficulty in the acceptance of responsibility, and it
> appears to me that you are looking to blame everyone else......
>
> Ron
> -----Original Message-----
> From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org [mailto:
> trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of Sohail Muzammil
> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 2:20 PM
> To: trauma-list at trauma.org
> Subject: Re: RE: trauma-list Digest- Doc Holiday
>
> Ron
>
> I would say that's the trainer's fault and has nothing to do with the
> hours. Surgeons do not want to assist their trainees because the
> students take longer (and that's frustrating). Instructors do not have
> the patience. Secondly they don't want a resident 'messing up' their
> paying patients. 5 years is a long time and should give residents
> plenty exposure within reasonable hours provided attitudes change.
>
> Having a half dead resident slouching around theaters isn't the
> solution. Give them more cases then let the poor buggers have some
> shuteye.
>
> Sohail
>
> >Have you watched a chief resident do a trauma case lately?  Or a hernia,
> or an OPEN >cholecystectomy - or perhaps better still an open procedure for
> a CBD repair after injury >caused during laparoscopic surgery.
> >I do so daily, and I am concerned.
>
> >Ron
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