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Sun Mar 22 18:11:05 GMT 2009

St V 86th street does not "like" trauma. They are part of their larger 
cardiovascular care network.

Do not take me to Wishard. Excellent ER trauma care but do not want to share 
a room with numerous gangbangers and felons.

Andrew Bowman

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephen Richey" <stephen.richey at gmail.com>
To: "Trauma &amp, Critical Care mailing list" <trauma-list at trauma.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: Where are the SURGEONS?

> So, that probably means it's going to be all Wishard, all the time.
> Great.....any EMS providers in the Indy area, please remember, I want to 
> go
> to St. Vincent's 86th street campus rather than anything in the Clarian
> network.
>
> On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Andrew J Bowman
> <andrewj.bowman at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Indiana is currently working to put together a statewidetrauma plan.
>> Meetings include surgeons ER physicians and nurses and prehospital care
>> providers.
>>
>> Typed by my index finger and sent from my iPhone.
>>
>> Andrew J Bowman
>> Acute Care Nurse Practitioner
>> Trauma Nurse Specialist
>> Paramedic
>>
>> Witham Health Services
>> Emergency Department
>> Lebanon, Indiana
>> 765-485-8500 Work
>> 765-426-4189 Cell
>> 765-485-8509 Fax
>>
>>
>> On Mar 22, 2009, at 10:26, Robert Smith <rfsmithmd at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>  I'm stunned in one sense, but perhaps not totally surprised I guess, to
>>> read that surgeons are being systematically excluded from planning of 
>>> EMS
>>> and disaster management. It's also sad that you would even feel a need 
>>> to
>>> defend the surgeon's current and historic role. I would have liked to 
>>> think
>>> that everyone was aware of those by now.
>>>
>>> Why do you think this has come about?
>>>
>>> Rob
>>> On Mar 22, 2009, at 9:30 AM, McSwain, Norman E Jr. wrote:
>>>
>>>  This is the old story of when the elevator door closes with the patient
>>>>  headed to the OR from the ED, that the emergency is over. No one 
>>>> thinks of
>>>> the continued care that the patient needs and the importance of how the
>>>> planning of the initial care impacts the later care. Ken is correct. of 
>>>> late
>>>> there has been a "purposeful EXCLUSION of surgeons in many  areas" from 
>>>> the
>>>> planning of EMS, disaster management both outside the hospital and in 
>>>> the
>>>> hospital.
>>>>
>>>> This is interesting because surgeons have been actively involved in the
>>>> starting of all emergency care and EMS. Starting from Larrey with 
>>>> Napoleon
>>>> in 1699, to Farrington starting EMS in the US in the 1950's, the start 
>>>> of
>>>> ATLS in the late 1970's, the start of PHTLS in the early 1980's and yes
>>>>  even emergency medicine was started by surgeons in the US.
>>>>
>>>> Norman
>>>>
>>>> Norman McSwain MD
>>>> Trauma Director, Charity Hospital
>>>> Professor of Surgery, Tulane University
>>>> New Orleans LA
>>>> 504 988 5111
>>>> norman.mcswain at tulane.edu <mailto:norman.mcswain at tulane.edu>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>> From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org on behalf of KMATTOX at aol.com
>>>> Sent: Sun 3/22/2009 8:02 AM
>>>> To: trauma-list at trauma.org
>>>> Subject: Where are the SURGEONS?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pret:   My question about "where are the surgeons" related to the
>>>>  discussion
>>>> as it entered into the regional trauma system and  EMS/EM system
>>>>  development
>>>> (in general).   The post at that point talked about  emergency medicine
>>>> and
>>>> EMS, but nothing about surgical involvement in a  regional, area wide, 
>>>> or
>>>> even
>>>> city trauma system.   It was surgeons,  working with all others in 
>>>> health
>>>> care
>>>> (EMS, nursing, EM, administrators,  politicians, and yes, YOU, with 
>>>> your
>>>> many
>>>> hats) that developed and grew the  Trauma System in Maine.     I can 
>>>> tell
>>>> you
>>>> from first  experience in talking to people around the world, and
>>>> including
>>>> medical disaster  planning and response, there is a purposeful 
>>>> EXCLUSION
>>>> of
>>>> surgeons in many  areas, thinking trauma care is in the arena of
>>>> emergency
>>>> medicine and ems  only.    We are all in this together.
>>>>
>>>> k
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In a message dated 3/22/2009 7:48:05 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
>>>> p.bjorn at netzero.net writes:
>>>>
>>>> So.  Four hours later, as her brainstem squeezes out the bottom of  her
>>>> skull... WHERE are the SURGEONS?
>>>>
>>>> Forgive me when I  suggest that this is at least an unnecessarily 
>>>> obtuse,
>>>> if
>>>> not altogether  silly, question.  There is zero assurance that her
>>>> outcome
>>>> would be  any better had she been injured in any resort in Montana, 
>>>> Utah,
>>>> Colorado,  or Maine.  Speaking only for Maine, I'm confident that she
>>>> would
>>>> have  been at a trauma center in well under an hour (probably half of
>>>> that)
>>>> from  the time of the second EMS call
>>>>
>>>> **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for
>>>> $10 or
>>>> less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
>>>> --
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>>>>
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>>>
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>
>
>
> -- 
> Stephen L. Richey
> --
> trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
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