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Lack of INTEGRATED TRAUMA SYSTEM cost Richardson her life ?

Brenildo Meirelles Tavares brenildo33 at uol.com.br
Sun Mar 22 15:38:29 GMT 2009


Wht fellows would like to comment about recent head trauma in Canada  sky 
school when died actress Natasha Redgrave spouse actor Nielsen, daughter of 
great English actressVanessa Redegrave?Available data are only journalistic 
and none medical. CAN WE REALLY KNOW REAL MEDICAL FASCTS, NOTE, NOTICES ETC
Brenildo Tavares MD Intensivist Honorary Member and Co-founder Brazilian 
Intensive Care Society (1981) FROM RIO DE JANEIRO BRASIL
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "McSwain, Norman E Jr." <nmcswai at tulane.edu>
To: "Trauma &amp" <trauma-list at trauma.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 12:11 PM
Subject: RE: Lack of INTEGRATED TRAUMA SYSTEM cost Richardson her life ?


Mark Donahue, who would have been a world famous race car driver, met the 
same fate in Austria after a Grand Prix (and he had on a helmet)

Norman

Norman McSwain MD
Trauma Director, Charity Hospital
Professor of Surgery, Tulane University
New Orleans LA
504 988 5111
norman.mcswain at tulane.edu <mailto:norman.mcswain at tulane.edu>

________________________________

From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org on behalf of Pret Bjorn
Sent: Sun 3/22/2009 9:46 AM
To: 'Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list'
Subject: RE: Lack of INTEGRATED TRAUMA SYSTEM cost Richardson her life ?



I should have been more clear.  Story of my life.

I was referring to the secondary events, those which summoned the second
ambulance.  I think we all agree that she was well advised following her
initial tumble, and the initial medics acted appropriately based on what we
know.

Not that I've looked very hard, but now that you mention it, I can't find
any report of any initial loss of consciousness at all; just that she
"didn't get up for a minute."  You're right of course that this describes
probably hundreds of blunt head injuries around the world every day which
are properly managed without a neurosurgeon.  But I think her later decline
was neurosurgical until proven otherwise.

Which brings us back to the fact that "later" is something like four hours,
in the foothills of rural PQ.  By then, God's plan for Natasha was in
progress.

Pret


-----Original Message-----
From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org [mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org]
On Behalf Of Nicholas Macartney
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 9:23 AM
To: Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list
Subject: Re: Lack of INTEGRATED TRAUMA SYSTEM cost Richardson her life ?

Dear Pret,
While I know that I live in a third world country, in London, England
at least a head bump with short term loss of consciousness would not
go to a neurosurgeon. It would go to the nearest hospital. And a head
bump, followed by a lucid interval, followed by loss of consciousness
would go to the nearest hospital too.
Bear in mind that in London, there are 6 hospitals with neurosurgeons
I can think of. One ( National Hospital for Neurology and
Neurosurgery ) does not have an ER, so never accepts patients that
have not gone via another hospital.
With the notable exception of the Royal London ( where the trauma
listowner works ) one has to think that some neurosurgeons do not want
to get all the emergencies, as it would impede the elective work/
private work.

Nick Macartne
On 22 Mar 2009, at 12:46, Pret Bjorn wrote:

> Let's start from the ground up, an decompress this conversation a
> bit by
> admitting that (from all that the public has been allowed to know) Ms.
> Richardson herself played a huge part in her own trajectory.  She
> was both
> exceedingly unlucky and tragically unwise.
>
> She was unlucky, not for cratering on a bunny slope, or even
> incurring a
> mortal head injury in the mix; but rather, for (apparently) showing
> little
> or no loss of consciousness followed by a truly world-class lucid
> interval.
> Bright lucidity, we must admit, can occasionally be wasted on the
> owner.
>
> As for that, her un-wisdom traces to at least two bad decisions:
> first, to
> not spend eight bucks renting a helmet (though why a ski school
> wouldn't
> provide this free of charge is beyond me); and second, to decline
> medical
> treatment in the immediate aftermath of her crash -- presumably
> because she
> felt largely uninjured, at least moderately embarrassed, and didn't
> want to
> dampen her vacation over a bump on the head.  Here, a show of hands:
> who
> among us would have done otherwise?
>
> So.  Four hours later, as her brainstem squeezes out the bottom of her
> skull... WHERE are the SURGEONS?
>
> Forgive me when I suggest that this is at least an unnecessarily
> obtuse, if
> not altogether silly, question.  There is zero assurance that her
> outcome
> would be any better had she been injured in any resort in Montana,
> Utah,
> Colorado, or Maine.  Speaking only for Maine, I'm confident that she
> would
> have been at a trauma center in well under an hour (probably half of
> that)
> from the time of the second EMS call.  (Sorry, Ken, but I base this
> exclusively on the integration and efficiency of our HELICOPTER
> program.)
> Yet I think we're all flattering ourselves if we think that would
> have made
> much difference so late in the game.  There are indeed miracle
> recoveries in
> such stories; but there are also fates worse than death.
>
> I'm less willing to criticize the Quebec EMS system because I'm more
> than
> 90% ignorant of its architecture.  Generally speaking, though, I
> hope that a
> mechanical fall with objective and isolated loss of consciousness --
> anywhere in the world -- would be triaged in favor of the closest
> hospital
> with a neurosurgeon.  (Practically anybody can do a head CT these
> days; but
> that's the problem.)  I'd prefer the destination be a trauma center;
> but if
> that's gonna add hours to the trip, she can be out-transferred after
> the
> burr holes.  And all this admits that I have no idea whether or to
> what
> extent the Canadian healthcare system has centralized the neurosurgery
> resources of one of the largest nations on the face of the earth...
>
> These are generalizations, of course, and defy systematization in the
> absence of a broad enthusiasm from local, regional, and provincial
> government; prehospital and EM providers; and yes, SURGEONS.  But I
> should
> think they'd all have significant and very useful input.
>
> Pret Bjorn, RN
> Bangor, ME USA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
[mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
> ]
> On Behalf Of KMATTOX at aol.com
> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 10:50 PM
> To: trauma-list at trauma.org
> Subject: Re: Lack of INTEGRATED TRAUMA SYSTEM cost Richardson her
> life ?
>
> WHERE are the SURGEONS ???
>
>
> In a message dated 3/21/2009 12:45:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> c_brault at yahoo.com writes:
>
> Once in  a while you hear stories through the EMS grapevine that EMS
> crews
> were  sanctions for bypassing local regional hospital and taking the
> wild
> risk
> of  doing diret transport to the Level 1 Trauma Center (this can
> only happen
> in
> certain regions near Montreal and Quebec city)
>
>
> When I  came back from the States 1988
> Their were no Board recognised Emergency  Physicians that were
> allowed to
> exercise as such (McGill Univ has the 2nd  oldest EM program through)
> Basicaly, I found that the GPs did not trust  themselves and there
> emergency
>
> medicine very much (and rightly  so)
>
> They
> Therefore
>
> Did not trust their nurses  either (French Quebec nurses have
> clearly less
> autonomy than their Anglo  counterparts)
>
> And
>
> They absolutely did not trust the  "Ambulance Drivers"
>
>
> **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner
> for $10
> or
> less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
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Dr NJD Macartney
ICU Director
Chase Farm Hospital
The Ridgeway
Enfield
EN2 8JL
+4420 8375 1074




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