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Wed Jun 3 18:28:00 BST 2009

Darn residents move too fast when I try to start an I.V. Hmmm does sux
work I.M.? Must look into that.

Bill

>>> John Annen <rjannen at yahoo.com> 6/3/2009 1:06 PM >>>
Are the punative intubations just for the drunks, or do the residents
get intubated as a punishment as well? ;-)

________________________________
From: William Bromberg <brombwi1 at memorialhealth.com>
To: Trauma-List [TRAUMA.ORG] <trauma-list at trauma.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 5:02:52 PM
Subject: RE: Air France Flight Disappearance - THEORY

Well, we KNOW what the stupid drunks do. I don't think anyone that
reads
this list doesn't blame them for doing stupid things and it's not our
job to hold anyone accountable except maybe the residents and that is
even changing (although we've all seen a punitive intubation or two).
It's just a lot more interesting to think about and speculate on a
mysterious event, especially one we don't see every day (thankfully).

My bet is just bad thunderstorm luck — it can get the best of them
(see Scott Crossfield for example 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Crossfield )

Bill Bromberg

William J. Bromberg, MD, FACS
Savannah Surgical Group
912 350-7412

>>> "McSwain, Norman E Jr." <nmcswai at tulane.edu> 6/3/2009 10:35 AM >>>
Ron 

you are correct Clap, clap, clap, cheer, cheer, cheer!

Norman

Norman McSwain MD
Professor, Tulane School of Medicine
Trauma Director, Charity Hospital Trauma Center
norman.mcswain at tulane.edu 
504 988 5111

-----Original Message-----
From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org 
[mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of Gross, Ronald
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 8:13 AM
To: 'Trauma-List [TRAUMA.ORG]'
Subject: RE: Air France Flight Disappearance - THEORY

>A faulty maintenance,  a leak in the fuel system + static= explosion,
a suicide attack to the pilot cabin, an explosive bomb, a air plane to
plane crash and an astray missile are other common explanations<

Common explanations?  When is the last time you saw any of these
common
events?  Lest we forget, air travel is still the safest mode of
transportation available to mankind.  Case in point - just for the US,
how many traffic deaths were there, and how many deaths due to plane
crashes were there?  Yes, there was the pilot error in Buffalo, NY,
but
how many crashes on US roadways did we see due to "pilot" aka driver
error?  Like drunk drivers, drivers talking on cell phones, etc, etc,
etc.

Too bad we don't pay as much attention to the carnage on the world's
roadways as we do to the deaths caused by airplane crashes.  Yes a
sudden massive loss of live is very visible - but the effects are the
same whether that loss of life happens all at once or over the course
of
365 days..........

And while I am at it - we might never know what happened on the doomed
Air France plane, and so all this speculation by all of our
self-proclaimed experts and a token will get me mugged on a subway -
and
will cast unproved and therefore undeserved blame on pilots who might
not deserve it.  How about we all look to cast blame and hold
accountable all of the people who are responsible for all of those
deaths on the worlds' roadways because they can't seem to stay sober
when they have to drive?

Just my 2 cents.

Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org 
[mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of Bjorn, Pret
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 8:42 AM
To: Trauma-List [TRAUMA.ORG]
Subject: RE: Air France Flight Disappearance - THEORY

I'm guessing that nobody "forgot" to blame the suddenly dead and thus
defenseless crew on zero evidence.

Some people just prefer to keep their speculations respectful and
harmless.  Some would rather not speculate at all.  The truth will
out;
no sense or use in rushing it.

Pret

-----Original Message-----
From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org 
[mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of listasmsd
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 7:04 AM
To: Trauma-List [TRAUMA.ORG]
Subject: Re: Air France Flight Disappearance - THEORY

Every one forgot the common cause of airplanes crashes: pilot error
...
seek the Occamśrazor. In very bad weather there is safe way out. At
the
end, like in most cases the pilots poor judgment will be the main
reason
of the plane lost.
I will always praise an anonymous Captain from A.A. that stopped the
flight I was in because the gadget-meter for fuel was faulty (a 3
hours
flight, fuel for 6 hours). We were ready for take off and the Captain
said the reason in the planés loud speaker: ......the replacement
sent
by the company was broken also... even with the A.A. land people
pressure he is not taken off......... It took me 14 hour to get to
Miami
The companies pressure the air crew often over "minor" problems so the
show will go on.
Regards
Manuel Sotelo
Caracas D.C.
PS A faulty maintenance,  a leak in the fuel system + static=
explosion, a suicide attack to the pilot cabin, an explosive bomb, a
air
plane to plane crash and an astray missile are other common
explanations

(Cross post from CCM-L)

Unfortunately, although there may be various variations (if they ever
find the flight data recorder), the cause of this crash is likely to
be
pretty simple:  Airplanes and thunderstorms don't mix.
There is no airplane that is turbulence and ice proof at the levels
thunderstorms achieve.
The tops of the storms were reported at or above the cruising altitude
of the aircraft.
Airborne radar only shows what is in front of the aircraft so you
can't
look at the big picture in the Atlantic real time.
In the US, I can ask the weather folks (and ATC if they turn off the
filters that remove weather from their radar scopes) for additional
information.
I don't believe that option is available in the middle of the
Atlantic.

If you have nowhere to go as you try to thread through storms that
doesn't contain a cell, you lose.
The space you came through may now contain another storm, so you can't
even turn back.  Generally, turning back is a bad idea once you are in
the turbulence because of the greater forces on the aircraft in a
turn..

I flew (on instruments) through a cold front once in a Cessna 182. 
Normally I would never do so, but we were looking for two missing
students who had flown back to their base from a trip and never got
there.
Their Emergency Locator beacon (ELT) had been heard.
We were the only aircraft/crew able to do ELT search in instrument
conditions that could be there in a prompt time frame and we had no
idea
if they were alive.
Survival drops > 75% (some say 90%) after 24 hours.
After talking with Flight Service meteorologist and the ATC controller
for the area, we decided we could make the flight with an acceptable
level of safety.
For about a minute, I couldn't maintain the aircraft altitude within
1000' (i.e. we were pushed up and down by turbulence > 3000' total), 
Usual tolerance is +/- 100'.
That was a cold front, not a thunderstorm, with the penetration
selected based on expert guidance, real time. Admittedly, a tiny
airplane compared to an airliner.
It is amazing what ATC will do when you have "Rescue" on the front of
your call sign.
(We found them on the side of a mountain, night and still on
instruments.  Ground team went in, no survivors.)

Lorick

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Air France Flight Disappearance - THEORY