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Wed Jan 7 13:23:53 GMT 2009

Is it a professional list or what? Anyway, this post is bases either on ignorance, which is bad, or on hate - that is even worse!

----- Original Message -----
From: Forrest Robleto <farcpr at gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009 15:16
Subject: Re: All Talk. (was RE: trauma-list Digest, Vol 67, Issue 4)
To: "Trauma &amp, Critical Care mailing list" <trauma-list at trauma.org>

> Religious zealots on both sides created the problem.  
> Israel took by force
> some land.  Did they deserve it?  Were the people on 
> there legally?   Was
> Israel justified?  It doesn't matter now.
> 
> The people that they displaced were put into refugee camps for 
> generations.They were cut off from all trade routes and water 
> rights.  They were kept
> poor deliberately for generations.
> 
> You don't make patriots for your cause by putting them in 
> refugee camps and
> keeping them poor.
> 
> Many of the people in Palestine are good peace loving 
> people.  But none like
> the pernicious poverty imposed on them.  Are they wrong to 
> fire missiles at
> their oppressors?
> 
> It's easy to look at the problem as black and white,  in 
> fact that makes a
> good parallel.  The Arabs in that area are like the 1960 
> blacks in America
> and the Israeli people like the whites of 1960.
> Were the poor blacks of 1960 justified in using violence?  
> Were the whites
> of 1960 responsible for the plight of the poor blacks?
> 
>  Human problems often stem from mans inhumanity to 
> man.  It's much easier to
> hate than to understand our fellow man.
> 
> Grief is the cost of love.
> 
> V/R
> 
> Forrest Robleto
> R House Health & Safety
> www.RHouseTraining.com
> FRobleto at RhouseTraining.com
> 609-792-9047
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joan Crawford  - "I, Joan Crawford, I believe in the 
> dollar. Everything I
> earn, I spend."
> 
> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 7:52 AM, Gross, Ronald 
> <Ronald.Gross at bhs.org> wrote:
> 
> > Y'know, I spent a fair amount of time awake last night - 
> unable to sleep as
> > I juxopposed coming home from a funeral of a true patriot, 
> physician hero
> > and friend, with about Pret's caustic and cynical outlook on 
> life as it ran
> > contrary to, and in criticism of, the views and sentiments 
> voiced by many on
> > this site.
> >
> > There are those of us who have always chosen to look at the 
> glass half
> > full, as opposed to half empty.  And then there are those 
> who seek to fill
> > that glass for all.  Those are the people that I wish we 
> could clone and
> > populate the planet with - the people who look at life and 
> wonder how it is
> > that we came to where we are, and how it is that we can make 
> it better - and
> > then go about and JUST GET IT DONE!!
> >
> > I am still wondering how it came to pass that all of the 
> "kennels", as Pret
> > called them, were created......and I am still awaiting Pret's 
> response to
> > that one.  Why is it that the Middle East's existence is 
> built on, and
> > perpetuated by, hatred that is generations deep?  Why is 
> it that people keep
> > telling us that "we just don't understand the true reasons" 
> for what is
> > going on there?  How does one understand hatred for 
> hatred's sake?  And why
> > is it that when we, as a group, voice our distress over this 
> sort of thing,
> > and look to figure out how "we" can make it better, there are 
> those who
> > choose to look at this sort of dismay as senseless and even 
> hypocritical -
> > although it was not stated precisely this way, one could 
> certainly infer
> > from the commentary that this is, indeed the cynical outlook 
> being taken.
> >
> > Men and women on "both sides" of the hatred battle will 
> continue to fight,
> > slaughter and torture each other - and yes, die senselessly - 
> until the rest
> > of us get up off our collective butts and do something.  
> I wish I knew what
> > that "something" was , is and will be - there are many much 
> smarter than I
> > who have tried to figure that out, and have failed.  But 
> if we decide to
> > just watch and sit silently about it, more people like the 
> American and
> > Palestinian physicians are going to die saving others.
> >
> > And in our silence we will ALL have their blood on our hands.
> >
> > I will shut up now.  I have rambled enough.....and 
> accomplished absolutely
> > nothing.
> >
> > Ron
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org [mailto:
> > trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of Doc Holiday
> > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:01 PM
> > To: .Trauma List
> >  Subject: RE: All Talk. (was RE: trauma-list Digest, Vol 
> 67, Issue 4)
> >
> >
> > From: pbjorn at emh.org> These messages are surely eloquent and 
> heart-felt.
> > But at what point does our reliable and unanimous dismay 
> merely serve to
> > define our collective fecklessness?
> >
> > --> I agree with "eloquent and heart-felt"...
> > But I don't think that the expression of dismay defines 
> fecklessness!>
> > If you define fecklessness as "worthlessness due to being 
> feeble and
> > ineffectual" (I found this in a few dictionaries) then I 
> disagree with you.
> > Regardless of whether you support the views expressed or not, 
> expressing> them is not necessarily worthless. It might not be 
> effective to express
> > dismay, when it comes to resolving the problem, but neither is 
> it effective
> > for you to criticise people for expressing it.
> >
> > > peace... utterly unsustainable.
> >
> > --> I have no evidence to contradict your statement in the 
> slightest. In
> > this light, I suspect that some who "merely" express dismay 
> are similarily
> > unable to work out what else they could personally do which is more
> > effective...
> >
> > > We, the Civilized, can be shocked by the savagery of crude 
> rockets and
> > bomb vests; but until we're as outraged...
> >
> > --> I do not claim to be "the civilised". Neither I am shocked 
> by the
> > savagery you mention, although I used to be many years ago 
> (one gets used to
> > hearing about it). As for being outraged about poverty and 
> unemployment (be
> > it in the middle east, Zimbabwe or various worse-off parts of most
> > continents), I am not sure that this will be effectual either. 
> We often
> > discover "outrage" at injustice to be the motivation behind other
> > retaliative outrages...
> >
> > > Above all, we should stop pretending we're perplexed or surprised.
> >
> > --> Some people still are perplexed - perhaps they are not 
> pretending. As
> > you said, "heart-felt"...
> >
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Gadi Shaked, MD
Department of Surgery
Trauma Unit
Soroka University Medical Center
Beer Sheva
Israel‎

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All Talk. (was RE: trauma-list Digest, Vol 67, Issue 4)