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Wed Jan 7 13:16:00 GMT 2009

Religious zealots on both sides created the problem.  Israel took by force
some land.  Did they deserve it?  Were the people on there legally?   Was
Israel justified?  It doesn't matter now.

The people that they displaced were put into refugee camps for generations.
They were cut off from all trade routes and water rights.  They were kept
poor deliberately for generations.

You don't make patriots for your cause by putting them in refugee camps and
keeping them poor.

Many of the people in Palestine are good peace loving people.  But none like
the pernicious poverty imposed on them.  Are they wrong to fire missiles at
their oppressors?

It's easy to look at the problem as black and white,  in fact that makes a
good parallel.  The Arabs in that area are like the 1960 blacks in America
and the Israeli people like the whites of 1960.
Were the poor blacks of 1960 justified in using violence?  Were the whites
of 1960 responsible for the plight of the poor blacks?

 Human problems often stem from mans inhumanity to man.  It's much easier to
hate than to understand our fellow man.

Grief is the cost of love.

V/R

Forrest Robleto
R House Health & Safety
www.RHouseTraining.com
FRobleto at RhouseTraining.com
609-792-9047

Joan Crawford  - "I, Joan Crawford, I believe in the dollar. Everything I
earn, I spend."

On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 7:52 AM, Gross, Ronald <Ronald.Gross at bhs.org> wrote:

> Y'know, I spent a fair amount of time awake last night - unable to sleep as
> I juxopposed coming home from a funeral of a true patriot, physician hero
> and friend, with about Pret's caustic and cynical outlook on life as it ran
> contrary to, and in criticism of, the views and sentiments voiced by many on
> this site.
>
> There are those of us who have always chosen to look at the glass half
> full, as opposed to half empty.  And then there are those who seek to fill
> that glass for all.  Those are the people that I wish we could clone and
> populate the planet with - the people who look at life and wonder how it is
> that we came to where we are, and how it is that we can make it better - and
> then go about and JUST GET IT DONE!!
>
> I am still wondering how it came to pass that all of the "kennels", as Pret
> called them, were created......and I am still awaiting Pret's response to
> that one.  Why is it that the Middle East's existence is built on, and
> perpetuated by, hatred that is generations deep?  Why is it that people keep
> telling us that "we just don't understand the true reasons" for what is
> going on there?  How does one understand hatred for hatred's sake?  And why
> is it that when we, as a group, voice our distress over this sort of thing,
> and look to figure out how "we" can make it better, there are those who
> choose to look at this sort of dismay as senseless and even hypocritical -
> although it was not stated precisely this way, one could certainly infer
> from the commentary that this is, indeed the cynical outlook being taken.
>
> Men and women on "both sides" of the hatred battle will continue to fight,
> slaughter and torture each other - and yes, die senselessly - until the rest
> of us get up off our collective butts and do something.  I wish I knew what
> that "something" was , is and will be - there are many much smarter than I
> who have tried to figure that out, and have failed.  But if we decide to
> just watch and sit silently about it, more people like the American and
> Palestinian physicians are going to die saving others.
>
> And in our silence we will ALL have their blood on our hands.
>
> I will shut up now.  I have rambled enough.....and accomplished absolutely
> nothing.
>
> Ron
> -----Original Message-----
> From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org [mailto:
> trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of Doc Holiday
> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:01 PM
> To: .Trauma List
>  Subject: RE: All Talk. (was RE: trauma-list Digest, Vol 67, Issue 4)
>
>
> From: pbjorn at emh.org> These messages are surely eloquent and heart-felt.
> But at what point does our reliable and unanimous dismay merely serve to
> define our collective fecklessness?
>
> --> I agree with "eloquent and heart-felt"...
> But I don't think that the expression of dismay defines fecklessness!
>
> If you define fecklessness as "worthlessness due to being feeble and
> ineffectual" (I found this in a few dictionaries) then I disagree with you.
> Regardless of whether you support the views expressed or not, expressing
> them is not necessarily worthless. It might not be effective to express
> dismay, when it comes to resolving the problem, but neither is it effective
> for you to criticise people for expressing it.
>
> > peace... utterly unsustainable.
>
> --> I have no evidence to contradict your statement in the slightest. In
> this light, I suspect that some who "merely" express dismay are similarily
> unable to work out what else they could personally do which is more
> effective...
>
> > We, the Civilized, can be shocked by the savagery of crude rockets and
> bomb vests; but until we're as outraged...
>
> --> I do not claim to be "the civilised". Neither I am shocked by the
> savagery you mention, although I used to be many years ago (one gets used to
> hearing about it). As for being outraged about poverty and unemployment (be
> it in the middle east, Zimbabwe or various worse-off parts of most
> continents), I am not sure that this will be effectual either. We often
> discover "outrage" at injustice to be the motivation behind other
> retaliative outrages...
>
> > Above all, we should stop pretending we're perplexed or surprised.
>
> --> Some people still are perplexed - perhaps they are not pretending. As
> you said, "heart-felt"...
>
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All Talk. (was RE: trauma-list Digest, Vol 67, Issue 4)