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Tue Aug 4 03:14:21 BST 2009

Tim, as we've discussed before, training, while important, means less than
raw material. This applies to paramedic or law enforcement - RSI or Taser -
news or research - tact or common civility.

Tasers in the hands of hospital security guards is an issue of which we
should be concerned, in spite of any research indicating the device could be
used safely in properly trained hands. I would submit that hand grenades can
be used safely and effectively in properly trained hands, but we don't allow
even sworn officers to carry that weapon. 

Perhaps off duty officers working security might change my opinion of Taser
use in hospitals, but most security guards are not sworn officers, and I
would venture that many, probably most, are inadequately trained for hand
grenades, firearms *or* Tasers. 

This discussion is not about whether a Taser *can* be safely used; it
concerns the likelihood that it *will* be safely used. In the end, you said
it all; "people who should never be in any position to use a TASER". I
submit that most security guards fit that description and thus the liability
issue is valid.

My opinion only, of course. Make of it what you will. Feel free to be
tactless if you want... I'll still love you... :)

Donn

> -----Original Message-----
> From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org 
> [mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of 
> htaed_rd at 123mail.org
> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 4:36 AM
> To: Trauma-List [TRAUMA.ORG]
> Subject: RE: Taser in ER
> 
> OK, I never did complete charm school. I am blunt. I do not 
> think that I
> am being inconsistent. Tact was never my strong point. 
> 
> I believe that the TASER is a tool that suffers mainly from
> misunderstanding and misuse. Misunderstanding by people exposed to
> inflammatory news reports, rather than research. Misuse by people, who
> have been poorly trained or people who should never be in any position
> of to use a TASER.
> 
> The same applies to intubation and RSI. The problems are not with the
> procedure, but with the oversight and with the people using intubation
> and RSI. There is abuse, but the solution to the abuse is to deal with
> the people who are causing the problem, not to ban something that is
> safe in the right hands.
> 
> As with aggressive sedation of patients presenting with agitated
> delirium, I do not believe the problems are with the use of aggressive
> sedation, but with the misunderstanding of appropriate use and with
> misuse. Allowing the agitated delirium to continue is not an 
> acceptable
> choice.
> 
> Tim Noonan. 
> 
> 
> On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 23:13 -0500, "D.E. (Donn) Barnes"
> <donn at phudpucker.com> wrote:
> > Tim,
> > 
> > Derision is uncalled for and perhaps even displays a personal bias.
> > People
> > do have opinions on this topic and I see no reason to deride them by
> > demanding citations or trying to rub their noses for 
> failing to produce
> > same. It lends nothing to the discussion.
> > 
> > Perhaps you should cool your jets, my friend.
> > 
> > Donn
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org 
> > > [mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of 
> > > htaed_rd at 123mail.org
> > > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 8:35 PM
> > > To: Trauma-List [TRAUMA.ORG]
> > > Subject: Re: Taser in ER
> > > 
> > > On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 21:46 +0000, cadeth66 at aol.com wrote:
> > > > I presume the need of having armed guards, carrying tasers 
> > > or any other
> > > > lethal or non-lethal would depend largely on the area 
> and people you
> > > > service. Out here in Somerset county NJ there is not so 
> > > much of a need
> > > 
> > > And yet, in your original email, you felt comfortable 
> making a blanket
> > > statement condemning the idea.
> > > 
> > > Tim Noonan.
> > > 
> > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> > > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: jduchesn at tulane.edu
> > > > 
> > > > Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:40:18 
> > > > To: Trauma-List [TRAUMA.ORG]<trauma-list at trauma.org>
> > > > Subject: Re: Taser in ER
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Dear Mathew: Over killed?.....Not here in Charity New 
> Orleans ;o)
> > > > Duchesne CharityOne- NO
> > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
> > > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: cadeth66 at aol.com
> > > > 
> > > > Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:35:22 
> > > > To: Trauma-List [TRAUMA.ORG]<trauma-list at trauma.org>
> > > > Subject: Re: Taser in ER
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > I personally believe its over-kill for any Hospital 
> > > security guard to be
> > > > armed.
> > > > 
> > > >   Granted some of the people we treat may be potentially 
> > > dangerous most
> > > >   of the time a situation can be verbally de-escalated
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Matthew Schumacher, EMT-B
> > > --
> > > trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
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> > > http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
> > > 
> > 
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Taser in ER