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Tue Nov 25 18:28:37 GMT 2008

Like in most thing outright anythings are over done reactions hence  
the need to have the data.

Absent data we are In ways spinning wheels.

Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET
FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI
Typed by my thumbs on my iPhone.

On Nov 25, 2008, at 12:23, "Stephen Richey" <stephen.richey at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> Well, in an area without significant trees or terrain issues  it  
> might be an
> issue.  However, it would still be ideal to avoid off the cuff  
> landings
> selected by non-pilots for their convenience. Predesignation of  
> sites would
> not have to be anything terribly difficult, simply having someone go  
> out and
> measure to make sure there is adequate room to allow the safe  
> operation of
> the helicopter, if there are any powerlines, trees, buildings or  
> terrain
> features that might prove hazardous to helicopters.  There are a lot  
> more of
> these out there than a lot of non-pilots realize.
>
> As Dr. Krin pointed out, any area with powerlines and, even more so,
> pipelines there are plenty of previously designated landing spots as  
> many of
> these aspects of the infrastructure are assessed by patrol flights.
>
> Perhaps an outright ban is harsh, but it is in the best interest of  
> everyone
> involved to give the industry as little room to weasel their way  
> into unsafe
> practices as possible.  Give me a few minutes and I can give you a  
> count of
> the crashes over the past few years were the use of an improvised  
> landing
> zone played a role.  I can think of one in Utah and one in Colorado  
> where
> this played a role and I will get the specifics for you.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 1:11 PM, LouIs N. Molino, Sr. <lnmolino at aol.com 
> >wrote:
>
>> Ever drive in rural west Texas? No way could any one do what it  
>> would take
>> to assure you've got a "designated" LZ everywhere one might be  
>> needed. Sure
>> I'm all for doing a reasonable job of this but think an outright  
>> ban on ad
>> hoc LZs is
>>
>> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET
>> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI
>> Typed by my thumbs on my iPhone.
>>
>> On Nov 25, 2008, at 12:04, "Stephen Richey"  
>> <stephen.richey at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> No, it would not.  It would simply require the air ambulance  
>> operations to
>>> go out and designate appropriate landing zones in their service  
>>> areas.
>>> This
>>> is in keeping with the type of proactive approach to safety we are  
>>> trying
>>> to
>>> encourage in the industry.
>>>
>>> The simpler option is to utilize existing airports and have the  
>>> patient
>>> transported there.  There are a lot more airports around- public and
>>> private- than many people realize.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 12:53 PM, LouIs N. Molino, Sr. <lnmolino at aol.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> But point 2 would eliminate the use of HEMS in rural and frontier  
>>> areas
>>>> where it MAY actually be warrented.
>>>>
>>>> Louis N. Molino, Sr. CET
>>>> FF/NREMT/FSI/EMSI
>>>> Typed by my thumbs on my iPhone.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 24, 2008, at 14:35, "Stephen Richey" <stephen.richey at gmail.com 
>>>> >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 3:22 PM, Anthony Caruso <medic541 at hotmail.com
>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Stephen, I have been reading this thread for as long as it has  
>>>>> been on
>>>>>> here.  I think that definitely changes are to be made for  
>>>>>> criteria on
>>>>>> when,
>>>>>> and when not to call for a chopper.  As I have said before more
>>>>>> emphases
>>>>>> should be placed on educating pre hospital providers. But there's
>>>>>> enough
>>>>>> blame to go around on that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, how do you suppose that you (we) can change the way  
>>>>>> Maryland
>>>>>> dose
>>>>>> its job?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Flight safety measures*:
>>>>> 1-Two pilots on board all flights
>>>>> 2-No landings at sites that have not previously been surveyed and
>>>>> approved
>>>>> (no more impromptu landing zones at the scenes of car accidents,  
>>>>> etc)
>>>>> 3-No flights without terrain awarness and warning systems  
>>>>> (TAWS), ground
>>>>> proximity warning system (GPWS) and night vision equipment  
>>>>> available to
>>>>> the
>>>>> pilots
>>>>> 4-No flights in deteriorating weather conditions or in  
>>>>> situations where
>>>>> the
>>>>> lowest level of clouds is within 500 feet of the top of the  
>>>>> highest
>>>>> obstruction along the planned flight routes.
>>>>>
>>>>> *EMS System Changes*
>>>>> 1-All flights are subject to audit and review to determine the  
>>>>> medical
>>>>> necessity of the flight and the data is open to anyone who wants  
>>>>> to use
>>>>> it
>>>>> for research purposes; this would allow for agencies other than  
>>>>> MIEMMS
>>>>> to
>>>>> keep tabs on the system as well as allow MIEMMS to recognize and  
>>>>> address
>>>>> problems before they become severe.  It could also allow further
>>>>> tailoring
>>>>> of the dispatch protocols for a specific area if certain issues  
>>>>> arise.
>>>>> 2-Hold ground crews accountable for their actions when they
>>>>> unnecessarily
>>>>> call for aeromedical transport in cases where it was not needed  
>>>>> (based
>>>>> upon
>>>>> careful review of the case) and allow for punishment (suspension,
>>>>> termination, etc) for repeated abuse of the system.
>>>>> 3-Term limit for the medical director to avoid development of
>>>>> complacency
>>>>> and abuse of power
>>>>> 4-Abolishment of statewide protocols in favor of a regional or  
>>>>> county
>>>>> based
>>>>> system.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There helicopters' serve duel roles.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> A) Obviously EMS missions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> B) Law enforcement missions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there a big difference on civilian medavac Vs. law enforcement
>>>>>> agency
>>>>>> medavac and there standards?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I honestly can not say because so far as I am aware there has  
>>>>> never been
>>>>> a
>>>>> good comparison of the two because there are so few dual purpose
>>>>> operations
>>>>> (off the top of my head- Maryland State Police, Los Angeles County
>>>>> Sheriff's
>>>>> Department (I think the fly rescue), the US Coast Guard)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: ALS79 at aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 14:58:00 -0500>  
>>>>> Subject:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Re:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maryland Air Ambulance Review Panel> To: trauma- 
>>>>>>> list at trauma.org> >
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>> Metcalf filled my position when I left ACEP. At the time, he  
>>>>>> was the
>>>>>> EMS
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Director for the state of Colorado. He was originally a  
>>>>>>> firefighter
>>>>>> in >
>>>>>> Maryland, and was at one time married to an executive with the  
>>>>>> ATS. He
>>>>>> left
>>>>>> ACEP and > went to work for JEMS magazine, and the on to be EMS  
>>>>>> Chief
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> fire > protection district at Lake Tahoe. He serves on the  
>>>>>> IAFC's EMS
>>>>>> Committee and also > does some consulting on the side with Jim
>>>>>> Paturas.>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> have known Bill for many years. While he can be objective, the  
>>>>>> two >
>>>>>> unalterable characteristics about him are that he'll vote on  
>>>>>> the side
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> majority > opinion, and he'll always defend MIEMSS because  
>>>>>> that's his
>>>>>> home
>>>>>> turf.> > It doesn't look good for our side.> > Bob Kellow> > >
>>>>>> **************> One site has it all. Your email accounts, your  
>>>>>> social >
>>>>>> networks, and the things you love. Try
>>>>>> the new AOL.com > today!(
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?op
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> tin=new-dp%26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001)>  
>>>>>>> -->
>>>>>> trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG> To change your settings or unsubscribe
>>>>>> visit:>
>>>>>> http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> --
>>>>>> trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
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>>>>>> http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Stephen L. Richey, CRT
>>>>> Aviation Injury Research Project Leader
>>>>> Saginaw Valley State University
>>>>> Work E-mail: slrichey at svsu.edu
>>>>> Home Office Phone: 248-366-4452
>>>>>
>>>>> "Hier stehe ich. Ich kann nicht anders. Gott helfe mir. Amen."-  
>>>>> Martin
>>>>> Luther, before the Diet of Worms, 16. April 1521
>>>>> --
>>>>> trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
>>>>> To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>>>> http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
>>>> To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>>> http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Stephen L. Richey, CRT
>>> Aviation Injury Research Project Leader
>>> Saginaw Valley State University
>>> Work E-mail: slrichey at svsu.edu
>>> Home Office Phone: 248-366-4452
>>>
>>> "Hier stehe ich. Ich kann nicht anders. Gott helfe mir. Amen."-  
>>> Martin
>>> Luther, before the Diet of Worms, 16. April 1521
>>> --
>>> trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
>>> To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>> http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
>>>
>> --
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>> To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
>> http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Stephen L. Richey, CRT
> Aviation Injury Research Project Leader
> Saginaw Valley State University
> Work E-mail: slrichey at svsu.edu
> Home Office Phone: 248-366-4452
>
> "Hier stehe ich. Ich kann nicht anders. Gott helfe mir. Amen."- Martin
> Luther, before the Diet of Worms, 16. April 1521
> --
> trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
> To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
> http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/

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