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Ang: Re: What did this thx trauma die of?
KMATTOX at aol.com KMATTOX at aol.comMon May 12 22:20:10 BST 2008
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Blunt cardiac injury, with injury to the valves, ventricular septum, atrial septum, coronary arteries, free wall rupture, and muscular hematomas have been described. The term "cardiac contusion" is so broad and non-descript as to be totally worthless. Cardiac herniation via a tear in the pericardium is well described. Routine garden variety myocardial infarction is rare in a 37 year old patient. Systemic (coronary artery and CNS) air embolism requires a lung tear and endobronchial pressures in excess of 60 TORR. The arrest from such a lesion lead to abrupt V-Fib and arrest, not progressive hypotension. I think you are going to be surprised by the final findings at autopsy. It is possible that they also find NOTHING new. k In a message dated 5/12/2008 3:55:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time, johan.malmgren at vgregion.se writes: Dr Mattox, thanks for answering I basically have the same concerns as you do regarding target BP and that the thoracic surgeon did not open the chest. Regarding stent or not, I have no personal opinion, we've done a few and it has worked out fine, but this patient would possibly have been alive if he had gone to surgery instead. Would you please elaborate on 1. why you don't believe in cardiac contusion and 2. how would coronary air embolism present? I'm guessing like a plain old MI? Johan Malmgren Resident, Anaesthesia, Critical Care & Traumatology Dept of Anaesthesia and Critical Care Sahlgrenska University Hospital Gothenburg, Sweden +46313428073 [Work] +46707696961 [Mobile] -----trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org skrev: ----- As presented, a number of concerns exist. As presented I would give NO crystalloid fluids in the ambulance or emergency room. Once you saw the suspicious chest X-ray, I would have started Esmolol. My target BP would have been 80/-. He sounds more like fluid overload rather than cardiac contusion (I do not really believe this diagnosis exists), or systemic air embolism. Atrial fibrillation in a 37 year old is rare, although with ETOH and drug use, it does occur. His hypotension in the CT scanner could be secondary to spinal cord injury as well as bleeding in the abdomen, with rebleeding caused by popping of the clot. I am concerned that the thoracic surgeon did not open the chest, as pericardial tear with herniation of the heart is also a real possibility and the thoracic surgeon could address that. I too believe that the general surgeon could have easily have done the thoracotomy. As presented, I WOULD NOT have considered a STENT of the aorta and I do not believe that the thoracic aorta popped its clot as your chest tube would have filled up with blood. The pathology leading to the hypotension in this case is outside the left chest. k mattox In a message dated 5/12/2008 1:51:09 P.M. Central Daylight Time, johan.malmgren at vgregion.se writes: Opinions please about a case from this morning. Please excuse the lack of details, I was only partially involved 37 y/o patient on amphetamine and benzo drives his motorcycle in 70 km/h right into a truck. Stable in all ways prehosp apart from a atrial fibrillation, 130 bpm. Arrives in ER and is diagnosed with small hemo-/pneumothx right side, subQ air right side, suspicious widened mediastine, left humerusfx. Still AFib with pressure around 130/70. BG shows hgb about 95, lactate and pH normal. Recieves a chest tube which drain some 100-200 ml blood. He's having some problems keeping his saturation up and is intubated. Surgeon wants to have a CT. Once on CT the head and neck are fine, but just as the thx/abd is about to start his BP is down to 95/50. So now everyone including the surgeon are convinced that something is happening inside him, and a renewed BP is 65/30. By this time he has by some way still recieved his CT and it shows a ruptured thoracic aorta at the ductus level, subQ air right side and in mediastine, mediastinal hematoma, lunglaceration, rib fx x4 and a contained splenic hematoma. Decision is made to stent the aortic rupture on the trauma OR. Stenting is going fine although circulatory unstable. His abdomen is becoming more distended and opened, and the splenic hematoma is no longer contained... Fast splenectomy, but about the same time anesthesia has more and more trouble. It turns out CVP is rising from 15 to 55-60, and the patient jumps between this afib in 140 to bradycardia to and fro. Thoracic surgeons are called in while the surgeon opens a diaphragmatic window, no tamponade. ECG turns into widened QRS and then asystole. CPR is started without effect. TEE shows no tamponade, and thoracic surgeon refuses to open chest with the argument that "there's nothing we can do, only more harm". Patient dies... So, apart from so many other things to comment, I'm curious to what you think actually killed the pt. The anesthesiology professor that handled him thinks that his myocardial contusion was more devastating than they first thought, and that he went into failure from transfusion overload. The surgeon also thinks that it was a plain myocardial contusion. I'm thinking that if he had a contusion that actually killed him, wouldn't you want at least a sternal fx and flail chest? How about coronary air embolism that gave him a plain MI? Suggestions and opinions please! Johan Malmgren Resident, Anaesthesia, Critical Care & Traumatology Dept of Anaesthesia and Critical Care Sahlgrenska University Hospital Gothenburg, Sweden +46313428073 [Work] +46707696961 [Mobile] = -- trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG To change your settings or unsubscribe visit: http://www.trauma.org/index.php/community/list/url/http:list.ftech.net/pipermail/trauma-list/2008-May/_http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/_ (http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/) **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. 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