List Archives

Mon Apr 28 03:25:26 BST 2008

This is exactly why stopped taking atls.  Many physicians forget that there are many flight crews both nurse and paramedics who place chest tubes insert central lines and surgical airways who could use the atls class but because we don't have MD behind our name we are left out.  Tnatc is a great replacement course for those that fly but now that I'm not flying it will be much more difficult to determine which course to take. I would appreciate physicians realizing that mudlevel providers throughout the country need this course and make adjustments accordingly.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: trauma-list-request at trauma.org

Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:00:50 
To:trauma-list at trauma.org
Subject: trauma-list Digest, Vol 58, Issue 24

Send trauma-list mailing list submissions to
	trauma-list at trauma.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://list.mistral.net/mailman/listinfo/trauma-list
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	trauma-list-request at trauma.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	trauma-list-owner at trauma.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of trauma-list digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: ATLS! (Andrew J Bowman)
   2. Re: ATLS! (Charles Brault)
   3. Re: ATLS! (Ben Reynolds)
   4. Reno, Nevada  - Integrated Collaborative Networks
      (KMATTOX at aol.com)
   5. Re: ATLS! (Jean A. Proehl)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 09:42:41 -0400
From: "Andrew J Bowman" <andrewj.bowman at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: ATLS!
To: "Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list" <trauma-list at trauma.org>
Message-ID: <000801c8a7a3$677fdd80$6400a8c0 at desktop>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Go to www.illinoisena.org and click on the education link and there are 
several TNCC courses in Illinois (although no CATN).

And www.astna.org has a listing of current TNATC courses.  There are courses 
scheduled for Michigan, Kansas City and Louisville Kentucky.

Going to www.traumanurses.org (Society of Trauma Nurses), lists the ATCN 
courses. These are all paired with ATLS so you sit in on the ATLS lectures 
then go to your own skill stations.  There are courses in St. Louis Missouri 
and in Michigan. Hopefully in the next year in Indiana.

Andrew Bowman

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jane Harper" <janeharper at mac.com>

> Last time I looked there were no TNATC courses within 500 miles.  We don't
> even do TNCC/ATCN in Illinois.
> 

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:25:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles Brault <c_brault at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: ATLS!
To: "Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list" <trauma-list at trauma.org>
Message-ID: <918815.69606.qm at web36506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Our local university hospital
Has cadaver labs
About twice a year
Usually paire with an ATLS or FCCS course
Kind of suprising in this day and age
Charles

----- Original Message ----
From: Andrew Bowman <andrewj.bowman at gmail.com>
To: "Trauma & Critical Care mailing list" <trauma-list at trauma.org>
Cc: "Trauma & Critical Care mailing list" <trauma-list at trauma.org>
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 8:28:52 PM
Subject: Re: ATLS!

I am sorry for your bad ATLS audit experience.

When I did it I was allowed to "play" at all of the dog lab skill  
stations.

TNATC has a great pig lab if you can find one in your area.

Andrew

Sent from my iPhone!!

Andrew J. Bowman
Acute Care Nurse Practitioner
Trauma Nurse Specialist
Emergency Department Registered Nurse
Paramedic

On Apr 25, 2008, at 20:22, Jane Harper <janeharper at mac.com> wrote:

> I can't speak for anyone else, but when I audited ATLS I was kept  
> out of all
> the skill stations.  It's exactly parallel to the situation in ACLS  
> in the
> 1980s -- just because my license prevents me from performing some  
> skills
> independently doesn't mean I should be shunted to the back of the  
> bus during
> the course.  I can't crack a chest independently, but so what?  I  
> can't
> intubate independently either (because I haven't gotten the  
> opportunity to
> practice the skill), but I still get an ACLS card and verification  
> that I've
> mastered the content.
>
> Just my $0.02.
>
> Jane
>
>
> On 4/25/08 18:59, "Andrew J Bowman" <andrewj.bowman at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I do not see what the big deal is.
>>
>> Who cares if PA's are "certified" in ATLS? What does that mean?  
>> They slogged
>> through a 2 day course and passed a test.
>>
>> RN's and NP's may audit ATLS. RN's and NP's may be "certified in  
>> TNCC, CATN,
>> ATCN, TNATC, BTLS, PHTLS.
>>
>> I have been a medic for 25 years, an ED RN for 17 and an ED ACNP  
>> for 1.  I
>> am judged on my experience and skills that I exhibit each day more  
>> so than
>> then the list of letters on my resume.
>>
>> Just my opinion on the matter and nothing else.
>>
>> Andrew Bowman
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jane Harper" <janeharper at mac.com>
>> To: "Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list" <trauma- 
>> list at trauma.org>
>> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 6:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: ATLS!
>>
>>
>>> But if they *only* certify PAs and not NPs -- there are gonna be  
>>> some sore
>>> NPs out here.  There are a LOT of us working in trauma now.
>>>
>>> Jane
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/25/08 16:53, "Charlene M Morris" <cvmmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> OH-- I sincerely hope not!! I would prefer this to be a step in  
>>>> the right
>>>> direction, Jane-- for all of us advanced practice clinicians!!
>>>>
>>>> Charlene
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 5:50 PM, Jane Harper <janeharper at mac.com>  
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Oh goody, one more thing to drive a wedge between midlevel  
>>>>> providers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jane Harper, RN, ACNP-BC
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/25/08 16:42, "Charlene M Morris" <cvmmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> www.aapa.org Hot off the presses-- or perhaps I should say--  
>>>>>> this is
>>>>>> the
>>>>> 1st
>>>>>> I have heard of PAs being certified in ATLS!?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Charlene Morris. PA
>>>>>> Advanced Trauma Life Support Cards for PAs
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Starting in October 2008, PAs will receive cards for completing  
>>>>>> the
>>>>> Advanced
>>>>>> Trauma Life Support (ATLS) course offered by the American  
>>>>>> College of
>>>>>> Surgeons (ACS). Between now and this fall, ACS will work to  
>>>>>> restructure
>>>>> the
>>>>>> rules, design the cards, and inform ATLS course managers of the  
>>>>>> new
>>>>> policy.
>>>>>> Until then, PAs will continue to receive letters indicating  
>>>>>> that they
>>>>> have
>>>>>> attended the course. AAPA liaisons to the ACS have worked for  
>>>>>> many
>>>>>> years
>>>>> to
>>>>>> achieve this goal. Dan Vetrosky, PA-C, M.Ed., current Academy  
>>>>>> liaison
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> ACS, congratulated all those whose past efforts contributed to  
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> achievement.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG <http://trauma.org/>
>>>>>> To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>>>>> http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> "If your pictures aren't good enough, you're not close enough"
>>>>> (Robert Capa)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG <http://trauma.org/>
>>>>> To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>>>> http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
>>>> To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>>> http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> "If your pictures aren't good enough, you're not close enough"
>>> (Robert Capa)
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
>>> To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>> http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
>>
>> --
>> trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
>> To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
>> http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
>
> -- 
> "If your pictures aren't good enough, you're not close enough"
> (Robert Capa)
>
>
> --
> trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
> To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
> http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
--
trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 15:35:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ben Reynolds <aneurysm_42 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: ATLS!
To: "Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list" <trauma-list at trauma.org>
Message-ID: <981829.89050.qm at web56615.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Really?  
I help facilitate (God help me if I said teach) ATLS at my institution and the midlevels (PAs and NPs alike) all participate in the skills lab.
Ben

----- Original Message ----
From: Jane Harper <janeharper at mac.com>
To: "Trauma & Critical Care mailing list" <trauma-list at trauma.org>
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 8:22:13 PM
Subject: Re: ATLS!

I can't speak for anyone else, but when I audited ATLS I was kept out of all
the skill stations.  It's exactly parallel to the situation in ACLS in the
1980s -- just because my license prevents me from performing some skills
independently doesn't mean I should be shunted to the back of the bus during
the course.  I can't crack a chest independently, but so what?  I can't
intubate independently either (because I haven't gotten the opportunity to
practice the skill), but I still get an ACLS card and verification that I've
mastered the content.

Just my $0.02.

Jane

On 4/25/08 18:59, "Andrew J Bowman" <andrewj.bowman at gmail.com> wrote:

> I do not see what the big deal is.
> 
> Who cares if PA's are "certified" in ATLS? What does that mean? They slogged
> through a 2 day course and passed a test.
> 
> RN's and NP's may audit ATLS. RN's and NP's may be "certified in TNCC, CATN,
> ATCN, TNATC, BTLS, PHTLS.
> 
> I have been a medic for 25 years, an ED RN for 17 and an ED ACNP for 1.  I
> am judged on my experience and skills that I exhibit each day more so than
> then the list of letters on my resume.
> 
> Just my opinion on the matter and nothing else.
> 
> Andrew Bowman
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jane Harper" <janeharper at mac.com>
> To: "Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list" <trauma-list at trauma.org>
> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 6:08 PM
> Subject: Re: ATLS!
> 
> 
>> But if they *only* certify PAs and not NPs -- there are gonna be some sore
>> NPs out here.  There are a LOT of us working in trauma now.
>> 
>> Jane
>> 
>> 
>> On 4/25/08 16:53, "Charlene M Morris" <cvmmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> OH-- I sincerely hope not!! I would prefer this to be a step in the right
>>> direction, Jane-- for all of us advanced practice clinicians!!
>>> 
>>> Charlene
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 5:50 PM, Jane Harper <janeharper at mac.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Oh goody, one more thing to drive a wedge between midlevel providers.
>>>> 
>>>> Jane Harper, RN, ACNP-BC
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 4/25/08 16:42, "Charlene M Morris" <cvmmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> www.aapa.org Hot off the presses-- or perhaps I should say-- this is
>>>>> the
>>>> 1st
>>>>> I have heard of PAs being certified in ATLS!?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Charlene Morris. PA
>>>>> Advanced Trauma Life Support Cards for PAs
>>>>> 
>>>>> Starting in October 2008, PAs will receive cards for completing the
>>>> Advanced
>>>>> Trauma Life Support (ATLS) course offered by the American College of
>>>>> Surgeons (ACS). Between now and this fall, ACS will work to restructure
>>>> the
>>>>> rules, design the cards, and inform ATLS course managers of the new
>>>> policy.
>>>>> Until then, PAs will continue to receive letters indicating that they
>>>> have
>>>>> attended the course. AAPA liaisons to the ACS have worked for many
>>>>> years
>>>> to
>>>>> achieve this goal. Dan Vetrosky, PA-C, M.Ed., current Academy liaison
>>>>> to
>>>>> ACS, congratulated all those whose past efforts contributed to this
>>>>> achievement.
>>>>> --
>>>>> trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG <http://trauma.org/>
>>>>> To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>>>> http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> "If your pictures aren't good enough, you're not close enough"
>>>> (Robert Capa)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG <http://trauma.org/>
>>>> To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>>> http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
>>>> 
>>> --
>>> trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
>>> To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
>>> http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
>> 
>> -- 
>> "If your pictures aren't good enough, you're not close enough"
>> (Robert Capa)
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
>> To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
>> http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
> 
> --
> trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
> To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
> http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/

-- 
"If your pictures aren't good enough, you're not close enough"
(Robert Capa)

--
trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 22:48:23 EDT
From: KMATTOX at aol.com
Subject: Reno, Nevada  - Integrated Collaborative Networks
To: trauma-list at trauma.org
Message-ID: <c67.3108c17f.35454377 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

The civil services and public health, and Disaster Command structures are  
already talking.    Many minor earthquakes in the Reno Nevada  area during the 
past 24 hours are causing alarm that this is a preemptive  warning of a BIG 
EARTHQUAKE in this area.   The trauma community  should have all of their 
networks in place for communications, assistance, and  ability to develop evacuation 
centers away from the area.   Remember  it is better to set up your 
capabilities AWAY from the area of disaster to take  evacuees into your community, than 
it is to RUN OFF TO THE heat of the  battle.       If you prematurely rush to 
an area  of a disaster, without being asked by those managing the local 
situation, you  add to the problem, not aid in its solution.  

k

**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car 
listings at AOL Autos.      
(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: 26 Apr 2008 22:56:04 -0400
From: Jean.A.Proehl at Hitchcock.ORG (Jean A. Proehl)
Subject: Re: ATLS!
To: trauma-list at trauma.org
Message-ID: <36008024 at mailbox3.Hitchcock.ORG>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

--- Jane Harper <janeharper at mac.com> wrote:

Last time I looked there were no TNATC courses within 500 miles.  We don't
even do TNCC/ATCN in Illinois.

J.
--- end of quote ---

Jane

I do not intend to imply that TNCC is the same as ATLS because is it designed for nurses, not physicians or mid-level practitioners.  However, Illinois holds frequent TNCC courses, I counted 7 scheduled for April alone.  If you're interested, you can find the dates and contact information for registration at:
http://www.ena.org/statecouncils/states/Illinois-TNCC.asp

Jean Proehl, RN, MN, CEN, CCRN, FAEN
Emergency Clinical Nurse Specialist | Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center | Lebanon, NH 03756 | 603-650-6049 
Editor, Advanced Emergency Nursing Journal | www.AENJournal.com

------------------------------

--
trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/

End of trauma-list Digest, Vol 58, Issue 24
*******************************************

List Archives

For your convenience, find the Trauma List Archive Below

trauma-list Digest, Vol 58, Issue 24