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Ronald Gross Rgross at harthosp.orgFri Nov 23 03:07:52 GMT 2007
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Patrick, First off, why the IVC filter if the clot was allegedly "in the inferior IVC just below its junction with the atrium"? What the heck is an IVC filter below the clot gonna do except make one more payment towards the IR doc's Lexus. Second, why draw all of these cardiac enzymes? EVEN IF, and that is a big IF, the kid had a BCI - formerly known as myocardial confusion aka contusion ;-) - I think we could all agree that there is no need whatsoever to draw anything, or for that matter do an echo in the absence of any arrythmias and/or hemodynamic instability. Third, is that "clot" just a flow artifact on the cavagram? I seem to remember a similar case where this exact scenario was reported and the "clot" was not a clot, but a flow artifact that can occasionally be seen, and that amazingly disappears on the next cavagram! And last but not least, how tight were your sphincters when you started a kid with a grade IV spleen on full anticoagulation? If i were in this kid's bed, I would refuse the anticoaglation in any way shape or form. I think you were right the first time - sounds like a bazillion dollar VOMIT to me. But that is just the cynical me speaking, having just had 2 patients transferred to me from another hospital in the state; these poor elderly patients were scanned up the wazoo (for which you know they will bill a whole lot) and then sent them on their merry way BY HELICOPTER to us for a bunch of extremity fractures and a couple of rib fractures and a VERY bogus "possible aortic dissection", ALL of which could and should have been handled by the general and ortho surgeons on call at the referring facility. But then again, it is Thanksgiving, "I (meaning the guys on call there) don't want to come in and see the patients and that is why we have Level I Trauma Centers, right?" OK< I'll shut up not. I am truly sounding like the grinch!!! Happy Thanksgiving to all, Ron >>> "Offner, Patrick" <PatrickOffner at Centura.Org> 11/22/2007 9:31 PM >>> I have a case I would like some opinion on. The patient is a 19 yo who fell while snowboarding and hit his head and left torso. He had about 15 seconds of unconsciousness. His main complaint was left posterior chest wall pain. Evaluation at an outlying facility revealed a left 1st rib fracture, left pulmonary contusion, occult left pneumothorax and a grade IV splenic laceration without extravasation of pseudoaneurysm. He was hemodynamically stable with a normal hematocrit. For some reason, troponin was drawn and revealed mild elevation. He was transferred to us for further management. We put him in our ICU for observation and nonoperative management of his splenic injury. We felt that he likely had a myocardial contusion as well. Subsequent EKG show 2mm ST segment elevation in the anterior leads. Somehow, the pulmonary/critical care service became involved (haven't figured out how yet)--but order serial troponins, serial EKG's and an ECHO. I saw this the next day and made fun of them to the nurses--asking how they got involved anyway. Unfortunately, the echo shows normal cardiac function--BUT an apparent thrombus in the inferior IVC just below its junction with the atrium. Well this starts the ball rolling---CTA, MRA, cavagram, IVC filter placement and full anticoagulation. The IVC gram showed a clear thrombus adherent to the IVC just above the confluence of the hepatic veins--measuring about 1.5 x 2 cm. All of this was accomplished over a 24 hour period when I was off. When I got back, I was worried that this was VOMIT. I would not have even gotten the echo to begin with. But the IVC gram seemed pretty clear cut when reviewed with the interventional radiologist. Fortunately, the kid has done well. NO splenic complications despite anticoagulation--although I used a conservative PTT target of 50-60. Repeat duplex ultrasound shows persistent thrombus that is smaller--now about 1 cm. My plan is to continue his anticoagulation for the present and repeat the duplex in 3 or 4 days. If the thrombus has completely resolved, I want to stop his anticoagulation altogether. Would anyone continue it for 3-6 months empirically? Would anyone just stop it now? Patrick J. Offner MD MPH Chief, Surgical Critical Care St Anthony Central Hospital ***************************************************************************** This communication is for the use of the intended recipient only. It may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication, any disclosure, copying, further distribution or use thereof is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please advise me by return e-mail or by telephone and delete/destroy it. ***************************************************************************** -- trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG To change your settings or unsubscribe visit: http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
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