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Tue May 1 00:48:34 BST 2007

My apologies, wrong Andrew, it was Andrew Caruso that called the action
outrageous.  Long thread, lot's of people.

If you are going to meet ALS you can do on the road anywhere.  If you're
going to meet the helo you may have to stay put.

On 4/30/07, Andrew J Bowman <andrewj.bowman at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This Andrew did no such thing, I never said anything about it being
> outrageous.  I used to work prehospital so I have walked the walk before.
> No sense in waiting for anything. Go enroute and arrange contact down the
> road. Always keep moving.
>
> Andrew
>
>
> On 4/30/07, Forrest Robleto <farcpr at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Andrew called the fact that the EMT's waited for a helicopter 28 minutes
> > outrageous.  What would you have done after 15 minutes?  He's denigrated
> > the
> > EMT's who did the best they could under the circumstances.  If they had
> > been
> > given the information that the wait would be 28 minutes they might have
> > considered a different route.  I'm sure they were not given that
> > information.
> >
> > Before you criticize a man walk a mile in his shoes, that way you'll be
> a
> > mile away and have his shoes.
> >
> >
> > On 4/30/07, rescsteve at aol.com <rescsteve at aol.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have no issues what so ever with 2 EMTs and a reliable bus...it is
> the
> > > basics that saves lives...
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: pbjorn at emh.org
> > > To: trauma-list at trauma.org
> > > Sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 4:31 PM
> > > Subject: RE: Trauma in the air Victims wait for help
> > >
> > >
> > > Don't abandon objective reality in the obstreperous defense of your
> > > paradigms.  Pretty soon you'll have your fingers in your ears,
> > > hollering, "LAALAALAALAA-I-AM-NOT-LISTENING!"  Cripes, it's like
> arguing
> > > with a guy who thinks his seatbelt will cause him to burn alive.
> > >
> > > Time is time, whether the delays are geographic, meteorologic, or
> > > military.  Every major trauma system innovation since the 1960's has
> > > resulted from trimming time to definitive care.
> > >
> > > Come with me to Darkness Falls, Maine, and we'll get drunk and crash a
> > > car into a tree.  I'll take the twin-jet helicopter with the
> > > nurse-paramedic crew from the trauma center, you can have the diesel
> > > truck with the two EMT's from the local ambulance service.
> > >
> > > Bet you reconsider when it's you, and it's real.
> > >
> > > Pret
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
> > > [mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of Andrew J Bowman
> > > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 4:01 PM
> > > To: Trauma & Critical Care mailing list
> > > Subject: Re: Trauma in the air Victims wait for help
> > >
> > > Of course the data looks good from Korea, Vietnam and Iraq. Those
> places
> > > have/had unsafe or non-existent ground transport capability. Air was
> the
> > > only way to go. The US is not the same thing when it comes to ground
> vs.
> > > air
> > > EMS transport. You cannot defend US air EMS by quoting situations in
> > > third
> > > world war zones.
> > >
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Bjorn, Pret" <pbjorn at emh.org>
> > > To: "Trauma & Critical Care mailing list" <trauma-list at trauma.org>
> > > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 3:44 PM
> > > Subject: RE: Trauma in the air Victims wait for help
> > >
> > >
> > > The data is actually rather compelling and durable; it just doesn't
> come
> > > out of most parts of New Jersey.  Instead, think Korea, Viet Nam, and
> > > Iraq.
> > >
> > > For that matter, I could (if HIPAA permitted) give you the names and
> eye
> > > colors of at least a couple of our patients each year who would be
> > > decidedly more dead or disabled if not for Maine's LifeFlight program.
> > > To be fair, I admit our trauma center mortality is going UP at the
> same
> > > time -- owing to patients who would have otherwise died at the
> community
> > > hospital, or during the truck ride (from thirty minutes to four hours)
> > > to a Maine trauma center.
> > >
> > > Just because you live ten minutes' drive from a trauma surgeon,
> doesn't
> > > mean everyone does.
> > >
> > > Pret
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
> > > [mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of rescsteve at aol.com
> > > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 3:03 PM
> > > To: trauma-list at trauma.org
> > > Subject: Re: Trauma in the air Victims wait for help
> > >
> > > Show me the data that the use of the copter makes a difference in
> > > patient outcomes.
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> > > http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
> > >
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > V/R
> >
> > Forrest Robleto
> > R House Health & Safety
> > www.RHouseTraining.com
> > FRobleto at RhouseTraining.com
> > 609-792-9047
> > --
> > trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
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> > http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
> >
> --
> trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
> To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
> http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
>

-- 
V/R

Forrest Robleto
R House Health & Safety
www.RHouseTraining.com
FRobleto at RhouseTraining.com
609-792-9047

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