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Sun Mar 18 16:20:38 GMT 2007

Of course you are assuming that this research is correct, where as all prior experience casting doubt on the safety is wrong. I am saying we don´t know for sure and you are saying we do know for sure, thus  the onus of proof becomes yours. In this regard I would prefer we err on the side of patient safety.

As for trial lawyers you can bet that cell phone and medical device manufactuers will not warrant their devices for all possible inter actions and combinations. thus decisions and responsiblities will rest with the user and the  institution permitting the use.

Anyway what is so damned important that you have to leave your cell on all the time in all situations, they don´t have a regular phone in your ICU?

Tom 

> ----------
> From: 	trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org[SMTP:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] on behalf of htaed_rd at 123mail.org[SMTP:htaed_rd at 123mail.org]
> Reply To: 	Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list
> Sent: 	domingo, 18 de março de 2007 12:44
> To: 	Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list
> Subject: 	RE: Study: No need to ban cell phones in hospitals
> 
> You sound like a trial lawyer.
> 
> The start of this thread was the publication of more research showing
> that cell phones are safe.
> 
> People are using cell phones in all areas of the hospital on a regular
> basis, so it is easy to state that there was someone in the area using a
> cell phone.
> 
> Why do we think that avoiding use of cell phones will change anything?
> 
> Don't look for a problem with a complicated piece of medical equipment -
> there was a cell phone in the area.
> 
> This is not good problem solving.
> 
> If you feel there is a need to remove the cell phone, do you arrange for
> their calls to be forwarded to a wired phone, or the nurses' station, or
> in any other way make any attempt to accommodate the patient?
> 
> Tim Noonan.
> 
> 
> On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 09:24:49 -0300, "Thomas Anthony Horan"
> <thoran at sarah.br> said:
> > I think we may be missing the point here. Safety first
> > 
> > RF interference exists; it may or may not be implicated in strange events
> > in ICUs and air craft. Cell phones are not vital in either environment
> > thus risk management should dictate non use until and only if the cell
> > phone manufactureers can prove their safety in all conditions of use
> > beyond doubt.
> > 
> >  What is the demand that makes it necessary for nurses and doctor and
> >  cleaners etc to call their hairdressers and girl friends and brokers on
> >  their fones from the ICU bed side?
> > 
> > tom
> > 
> > > ----------
> > > From: 	trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org[SMTP:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] on behalf of htaed_rd at 123mail.org[SMTP:htaed_rd at 123mail.org]
> > > Reply To: 	Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list
> > > Sent: 	domingo, 18 de março de 2007 02:35
> > > To: 	Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list
> > > Subject: 	Re: Study: No need to ban cell phones in hospitals
> > > 
> > > On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 13:03:51 -0400, rwolfer at aol.com said:
> > > > we have had problems within the last year with IVACS in the NICU and PICU
> > > > suddenly going to 999 in rate without numbers being changed. confirmed by
> > > > biomed that pumps had been working fine before hand. 
> > > > It was noted after
> > > > cell phones being used  close by.  Therefore, they are still banned here 
> > > 
> > > How do you confirm that something was working fine before a problem?
> > > 
> > > How do you know that this was the first evidence of a problem?
> > > 
> > > Was no other activity of any kind happening at the time of these events?
> > > 
> > > Was any effort made to reproduce these events?
> > > 
> > > I suspect that there were many other activities guilty of association
> > > with the adverse events that biomed states were not biomed's fault.
> > > 
> > > There is a problem.
> > > 
> > > There is a rule to protect patients.
> > > 
> > > There is very weak evidence to support blaming cellular phones.> 
> > > 
> > > There is evidence that the rule is does not work.
> > > 
> > > The decision is to continue this rule.
> > > 
> > > Were any other possible causes, aside from a record of recent
> > > malfunction, considered?
> > > 
> > > Tim Noonan.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > Rebecca Wolfer, MD, FACS, FCCP
> > > > Associate Professor, Marshall University School of Medicine
> > > > Dept of Surgery
> > > > Director Thoracic Surgery
> > > > Director, Surgical Critical Care Cabell Huntington Hospital
> > > > Director, Trauma Cabell Huntington Hospital
> > > >  
> > > >  
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Krin135 at aol.com
> > > > To: trauma-list at trauma.org
> > > > Sent: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:32 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: Study: No need to ban cell phones in hospitals
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > In a message dated 3/11/2007 8:14:02 PM Central Daylight Time,  
> > > > htaed_rd at 123mail.org writes:
> > > > 
> > > > The  hospitals are afraid of allowing anything that was once banned -
> > > > what if  something bad did happen? Oh my!
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > well, from an Radio Frequency Interference standpoint, there was a point
> > > > to  
> > > > the ban, 10 years ago, when bag phones could exceed 1 watt effective
> > > > radiated  
> > > > power, and many telemetry systems operated on frequencies in close
> > > > proximity 
> > > > to  the analog cell phone frequencies...
> > > >  
> > > > More of a problem was present when most telemetry systems operated on the 
> > > > 150-160 MHz bands shared with public service hand held radio
> > > > services...those  
> > > > old Motorola 'bricks' could produce up to 3 watts of power, and a medic's
> > > > or  
> > > > peace officer's radio could hash a whole telemetry wing.
> > > >  
> > > > with the much reduced power of the new digital phones, and the separation
> > > >  of 
> > > > most of the cell phone bands from the telemetry link bands, this is no
> > > > longer 
> > > >  a problem.
> > > >  
> > > > Same with the bans on pacemaker patients from microwave ovens...while
> > > > still  
> > > > theoretically a risk, when was the last time you actually saw a patient
> > > > who 
> > > > had  a problem from microwave *oven* exposure?
> > > >  
> > > > ck
> > > > Charles S. Krin, DO FAAFP
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Study: No need to ban cell phones in hospitals