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Sun Mar 18 16:10:22 GMT 2007

Latest UK position of Government
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6449557.stm 

There was always an issue with much older analogue phones which had far
higher power outputs to maintain functionality, digital systems tend to be
lower output.

The biggest reason to ban outside of the extreme speciality areas is privacy
for the patients and to reduce disturbance 

-----Original Message-----
From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org [mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org]
On Behalf Of htaed_rd at 123mail.org
Sent: 18 March 2007 15:45
To: Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list
Subject: RE: Study: No need to ban cell phones in hospitals

You sound like a trial lawyer.

The start of this thread was the publication of more research showing that
cell phones are safe.

People are using cell phones in all areas of the hospital on a regular
basis, so it is easy to state that there was someone in the area using a
cell phone.

Why do we think that avoiding use of cell phones will change anything?

Don't look for a problem with a complicated piece of medical equipment -
there was a cell phone in the area.

This is not good problem solving.

If you feel there is a need to remove the cell phone, do you arrange for
their calls to be forwarded to a wired phone, or the nurses' station, or in
any other way make any attempt to accommodate the patient?

Tim Noonan.

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 09:24:49 -0300, "Thomas Anthony Horan"
<thoran at sarah.br> said:
> I think we may be missing the point here. Safety first
> 
> RF interference exists; it may or may not be implicated in strange 
> events in ICUs and air craft. Cell phones are not vital in either 
> environment thus risk management should dictate non use until and only 
> if the cell phone manufactureers can prove their safety in all 
> conditions of use beyond doubt.
> 
>  What is the demand that makes it necessary for nurses and doctor and  
> cleaners etc to call their hairdressers and girl friends and brokers 
> on  their fones from the ICU bed side?
> 
> tom
> 
> > ----------
> > From:
trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org[SMTP:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] on
behalf of htaed_rd at 123mail.org[SMTP:htaed_rd at 123mail.org]
> > Reply To:   Trauma & Critical Care mailing list
> > Sent:   domingo, 18 de março de 2007 02:35
> > To:     Trauma & Critical Care mailing list
> > Subject:    Re: Study: No need to ban cell phones in hospitals
> > 
> > On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 13:03:51 -0400, rwolfer at aol.com said:
> > > we have had problems within the last year with IVACS in the NICU 
> > > and PICU suddenly going to 999 in rate without numbers being 
> > > changed. confirmed by biomed that pumps had been working fine before
hand.
> > > It was noted after
> > > cell phones being used  close by.  Therefore, they are still 
> > > banned here
> > 
> > How do you confirm that something was working fine before a problem?
> > 
> > How do you know that this was the first evidence of a problem?
> > 
> > Was no other activity of any kind happening at the time of these events?
> > 
> > Was any effort made to reproduce these events?
> > 
> > I suspect that there were many other activities guilty of 
> > association with the adverse events that biomed states were not biomed's
fault.
> > 
> > There is a problem.
> > 
> > There is a rule to protect patients.
> > 
> > There is very weak evidence to support blaming cellular phones.
> > 
> > There is evidence that the rule is does not work.
> > 
> > The decision is to continue this rule.
> > 
> > Were any other possible causes, aside from a record of recent 
> > malfunction, considered?
> > 
> > Tim Noonan.
> > 
> > 
> > > Rebecca Wolfer, MD, FACS, FCCP
> > > Associate Professor, Marshall University School of Medicine Dept 
> > > of Surgery Director Thoracic Surgery Director, Surgical Critical 
> > > Care Cabell Huntington Hospital Director, Trauma Cabell Huntington 
> > > Hospital
> > >  
> > >  
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Krin135 at aol.com
> > > To: trauma-list at trauma.org
> > > Sent: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:32 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Study: No need to ban cell phones in hospitals
> > > 
> > > 
> > >  
> > > In a message dated 3/11/2007 8:14:02 PM Central Daylight Time, 
> > > htaed_rd at 123mail.org writes:
> > > 
> > > The  hospitals are afraid of allowing anything that was once 
> > > banned - what if  something bad did happen? Oh my!
> > > 
> > > 
> > > well, from an Radio Frequency Interference standpoint, there was a 
> > > point to the ban, 10 years ago, when bag phones could exceed 1 
> > > watt effective radiated power, and many telemetry systems operated 
> > > on frequencies in close proximity to  the analog cell phone 
> > > frequencies...
> > >  
> > > More of a problem was present when most telemetry systems operated 
> > > on the 150-160 MHz bands shared with public service hand held 
> > > radio services...those old Motorola 'bricks' could produce up to 3 
> > > watts of power, and a medic's or peace officer's radio could hash 
> > > a whole telemetry wing.
> > >  
> > > with the much reduced power of the new digital phones, and the 
> > > separation  of most of the cell phone bands from the telemetry 
> > > link bands, this is no longer  a problem.
> > >  
> > > Same with the bans on pacemaker patients from microwave 
> > > ovens...while still theoretically a risk, when was the last time 
> > > you actually saw a patient who had  a problem from microwave 
> > > *oven* exposure?
> > >  
> > > ck
> > > Charles S. Krin, DO FAAFP
> > > <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now 
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Study: No need to ban cell phones in hospitals