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Thu Jul 5 20:41:30 BST 2007

Thank you, Dr. Kesler:

I recently read that when Mr. Michael Moore receives health care, he gets in 
in Michigan, not Canada, and he has very good insurance that he purchased in 
the United States.    He does not expect nor receive free health care.

Mohammed

>From: "Kesler, Alison M." <Alison.Kesler at CWHS.com>
>Reply-To: "Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list" 
><trauma-list at trauma.org>
>To: "Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list" <trauma-list at trauma.org>
>CC: ccm-l at ccm-l.org
>Subject: RE: Universal Free Health Care
>Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 11:58:41 -0700
>
>Thank you, Sir, for saying what has needed to be said in a very eloquent
>manner.
>I am a Canadian who has been in the USA by choice for the past 12 years.
>I "grew up" in the Canadian health care system, watching my Dad, a
>surgeon; get more and more frustrated as the years wore on. The CDN
>gov't has continued to make certain billings illegal and increased
>malpractice insurance to the point where many physicians either went to
>Saudi Arabia or retired. The myth of "free health care" is just that. As
>I continue to work in the health care arena, I wonder just WHAT
>cataclysmic events need to unfold in order for us to get a handle on the
>rising cost of decent health care in the face of a rapidly aging
>population. If the world thinks we have a physician and nursing shortage
>now, wait 5 years.
>
>My Dad used to always tell me that "nothing is free".....how right he
>is.
>
>My 2 cents...... I wonder if I could bill the CDN gov't $100 for my 2
>cents???
>
>:) Alison Kesler BSN, CEN, CFRN
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
>[mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of Mohammed al Malik
>Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 8:31 AM
>To: trauma-list at trauma.org
>Cc: ccm-l at ccm-l.org
>Subject: Universal Free Health Care
>
>The discussions regarding social medical systems and universal free
>health
>care for all has been very interesting.   I qualified to be a doctor in
>the
>Middle East and received my training as a registrar in England and
>France.
>I have seen first hand governmental health systems in 5 Middle Eastern
>countries, England, France, South Africa, and the United States.   I
>choose
>to work now in the United States and raise my family in the United
>States
>because that is where I get the best education, the best health care,
>the
>best choices, and a fair bargain for my money.   My taxes to pay to
>health
>care in other countries was too high and I did not have the opportunity
>to
>make an incentivised increased amount of money.
>
>The system here in Los Angeles and California is not ideal.   The HMO
>systems of Kaiser do have some good points, but many bad points,
>including
>attempting to deny patients access so as to make money for Kaiser.
>
>Most of the drugs I have used around the world, and many of the
>instruments
>and devices have been developed and made in the United States.   That
>should
>tell you something.   Even now some of the low bid drugs which the
>hospital
>buys are not produced in the United States and the quality control is
>poor.
>
>So.   As for me.   I have been there and seen single payer government
>systems first hand.   In every country with such systems, both the
>doctors
>and the patients seek ways to get private practice attention by the
>patients
>paying out of pocket to bypass the social services systems.    In UK up
>to
>1/3 of the doctors are trained outside of the UK because UK cannot
>educate
>their own doctors and nurses at a rate fast enough.   Many things are
>wrong
>with that system.
>
>Mohammed al Malik
>Los Angeles
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: Richard Wigle MD FACS <rlwigle at yahoo.com>
> >Reply-To: "Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list"
> ><trauma-list at trauma.org>
> >To: "Trauma &amp, Critical Care mailing list" <trauma-list at trauma.org>
> >Subject: Re: Universal Free Health Care (.......nanny and laundry)
> >Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 12:40:24 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >There ain't no such thing as a free lunch--- "The Moon is a
> >Harsh Mistress" late 1950#s, early 1960's if I'm not
> >mistaken-- can't look it up, my copy is packed and in
> >shipment.
> >
> >Besides being Heinlien's restatement of the laws of
> >thermodynamics it's the principle underlying all medicine-
> >anything you do has more effects than just the one you want
> >
> >Dick Wigle
> >--- Forrest Robleto <farcpr at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I read everything Heinlien wrote (even when he got to be
> > > a dirty old man)
> > > but I missed the TANSTAAFL reference.
> > >
> > > On 7/4/07, fiona wallace <tielserrath at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hey - did you waste..er spend...your teenage years
> > > reading Heinlein, too?
> > > >
> > > > TANSTAAFL is right, but we think it's fairer to spread
> > > the load rather
> > > > than have people live in fear of the financial burden
> > > of illness. The other
> > > > financial stuff (Job loss, disability) is bad enough
> > > without a hospital bill
> > > > the equivalent of three or five year's wages.
> > > >
> > > > I think linking our GDP and unemployment solely to our
> > > nationalised health
> > > > system is a bit ingenuous, too. It's a hell of a lot
> > > more complicated than
> > > > that. Especially as among countries with a nationalised
> > > system ours is one
> > > > of the most comprehensive and also one of the cheapest.
> > > >
> > > > Over here it tends to be those who could afford
> > > insurance who make the
> > > > most noise about the problems with our system.
> > > >
> > > > It's a bit like when you vote, you see. You always ask
> > > yourself 'how will
> > > > the policies of each party help the very poorest, the
> > > ones who don't show on
> > > > anyone's radar?' You vote according to what will be
> > > best for those who have
> > > > the weakest voice, the ones it's easiest to ignore.
> > > >
> > > > And you arrange your health system the same way.
> > > >
> > > > Dr Fiona Wallace.
> > > > UK
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
> > > > [mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org]On Behalf Of
> > > William Bromberg
> > > > Sent: 03 July 2007 14:04
> > > > To: trauma-list at trauma.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Universal Free Health Care (.......nanny
> > > and laundry)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No  health system is free of problems, but at least no
> > > one is bankrupted
> > > > in
> > > > the UK  through paying for medical treatment.
> > > >
> > > > This is not true. The drag  of the 50-60% tax necessary
> > > to pay for the
> > > > "FREE" health care causes poor economic growth leading
> > > to worse overall
> > > > conditions. For example the per capita GDP in the UK is
> > > $12,000 less
> > > > than the US (2006 number -$31,800 v. $44,000) and the
> > > unemployment
> > > > rate is higher (5.5% v. 4.8%).
> > > >
> > > > The costs of a "free" system are hidden. I understand
> > > the human desire
> > > > to get something for nothing but continue to marvel at
> > > the ability to
> > > > believe it can happen. There is no free. TANSTAAFL.
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > > --
> > > > trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
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> > > > http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
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> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > V/R
> > >
> > > Forrest Robleto
> > > R House Health & Safety
> > > www.RHouseTraining.com
> > > FRobleto at RhouseTraining.com
> > > 609-792-9047
> > > --
> > > trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
> > > To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
> > > http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________________________________
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