List Archives

Thu Jul 5 16:31:08 BST 2007

The discussions regarding social medical systems and universal free health 
care for all has been very interesting.   I qualified to be a doctor in the 
Middle East and received my training as a registrar in England and France.   
I have seen first hand governmental health systems in 5 Middle Eastern 
countries, England, France, South Africa, and the United States.   I choose 
to work now in the United States and raise my family in the United States 
because that is where I get the best education, the best health care, the 
best choices, and a fair bargain for my money.   My taxes to pay to health 
care in other countries was too high and I did not have the opportunity to 
make an incentivised increased amount of money.

The system here in Los Angeles and California is not ideal.   The HMO 
systems of Kaiser do have some good points, but many bad points, including 
attempting to deny patients access so as to make money for Kaiser.

Most of the drugs I have used around the world, and many of the instruments 
and devices have been developed and made in the United States.   That should 
tell you something.   Even now some of the low bid drugs which the hospital 
buys are not produced in the United States and the quality control is poor.

So.   As for me.   I have been there and seen single payer government 
systems first hand.   In every country with such systems, both the doctors 
and the patients seek ways to get private practice attention by the patients 
paying out of pocket to bypass the social services systems.    In UK up to 
1/3 of the doctors are trained outside of the UK because UK cannot educate 
their own doctors and nurses at a rate fast enough.   Many things are wrong 
with that system.

Mohammed al Malik
Los Angeles

>From: Richard Wigle MD FACS <rlwigle at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: "Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list" 
><trauma-list at trauma.org>
>To: "Trauma &amp, Critical Care mailing list" <trauma-list at trauma.org>
>Subject: Re: Universal Free Health Care (.......nanny and laundry)
>Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 12:40:24 -0700 (PDT)
>
>There ain't no such thing as a free lunch--- "The Moon is a
>Harsh Mistress" late 1950#s, early 1960's if I'm not
>mistaken-- can't look it up, my copy is packed and in
>shipment.
>
>Besides being Heinlien's restatement of the laws of
>thermodynamics it's the principle underlying all medicine-
>anything you do has more effects than just the one you want
>
>Dick Wigle
>--- Forrest Robleto <farcpr at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I read everything Heinlien wrote (even when he got to be
> > a dirty old man)
> > but I missed the TANSTAAFL reference.
> >
> > On 7/4/07, fiona wallace <tielserrath at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hey - did you waste..er spend...your teenage years
> > reading Heinlein, too?
> > >
> > > TANSTAAFL is right, but we think it's fairer to spread
> > the load rather
> > > than have people live in fear of the financial burden
> > of illness. The other
> > > financial stuff (Job loss, disability) is bad enough
> > without a hospital bill
> > > the equivalent of three or five year's wages.
> > >
> > > I think linking our GDP and unemployment solely to our
> > nationalised health
> > > system is a bit ingenuous, too. It's a hell of a lot
> > more complicated than
> > > that. Especially as among countries with a nationalised
> > system ours is one
> > > of the most comprehensive and also one of the cheapest.
> > >
> > > Over here it tends to be those who could afford
> > insurance who make the
> > > most noise about the problems with our system.
> > >
> > > It's a bit like when you vote, you see. You always ask
> > yourself 'how will
> > > the policies of each party help the very poorest, the
> > ones who don't show on
> > > anyone's radar?' You vote according to what will be
> > best for those who have
> > > the weakest voice, the ones it's easiest to ignore.
> > >
> > > And you arrange your health system the same way.
> > >
> > > Dr Fiona Wallace.
> > > UK
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
> > > [mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org]On Behalf Of
> > William Bromberg
> > > Sent: 03 July 2007 14:04
> > > To: trauma-list at trauma.org
> > > Subject: Re: Universal Free Health Care (.......nanny
> > and laundry)
> > >
> > >
> > > No  health system is free of problems, but at least no
> > one is bankrupted
> > > in
> > > the UK  through paying for medical treatment.
> > >
> > > This is not true. The drag  of the 50-60% tax necessary
> > to pay for the
> > > "FREE" health care causes poor economic growth leading
> > to worse overall
> > > conditions. For example the per capita GDP in the UK is
> > $12,000 less
> > > than the US (2006 number —$31,800 v. $44,000) and the
> > unemployment
> > > rate is higher (5.5% v. 4.8%).
> > >
> > > The costs of a "free" system are hidden. I understand
> > the human desire
> > > to get something for nothing but continue to marvel at
> > the ability to
> > > believe it can happen. There is no free. TANSTAAFL.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > > --
> > > trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
> > > To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
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> > >
> > > --
> > > trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
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> > > http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > V/R
> >
> > Forrest Robleto
> > R House Health & Safety
> > www.RHouseTraining.com
> > FRobleto at RhouseTraining.com
> > 609-792-9047
> > --
> > trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
> > To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
> > http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/
> >
>
>
>
>
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