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Sun Jan 21 00:41:36 GMT 2007

As I have often said-- there are worse things than death. We have all seen
those cases. A pregnant lightning strike victim was resuscitated to *life*
only to die a few hours later-- all the while, the baby was dead and the
exit wound was visibly by her heart. Her viability was gone before she hit
the ground.

Charlene Morris

On 1/20/07, john lenick <jlenick at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> just to weigh in on this, and I haven't got the whole
> story, but...
>
> Ten years ago, I was a kid working as a X-ray
> assistant/transporter in a NYC hosptial ER, and we had
> a trauma come in, I can't remember what hit him but he
> had open and depressed skull fractures, spinal
> fractures, the works. the team stabilized him, we took
> films, he coded, stabilized, crashed, and after 15
> minutes of watching the team work on this guy, and
> seeing the films and knowing that it was a slim shot
> he'd ever open his eyes again if he lived, let alone
> be anything close to the person he had been, I
> remarked to the technician I was assisting that it
> seemed like a bit of a waste to keep torturing him
> like this as it seemd hopeless. The tech told me that
> thats not our (meaning medical personell's) decision
> to make. We do everything in our power to prevent
> death...we don't make a decision if it is pointless,
> or worthwhile, to do so. We do it. So if anyone has a
> problem with these medics for not attempting a
> resusitation, I suppose it's along this line of
> reasoning. I can't imagine anyone having a issue if
> this patient was d-e-a-d when they found him.
> J
> --- Pret Bjorn <p.bjorn at netzero.net> wrote:
>
> > Any way you look at it, this case begins with a dead
> > patient.  In U.S. civil
> > law, there is keen awareness of "damaged goods."
> > Clinicians who are unable
> > to improve on pre-existing extremes of condition are
> > not held to the same
> > accounting as those who through negligence allow, or
> > contribute to,
> > morbidity or mortality.
> >
> > How this translates overseas, I don't know.  But the
> > victim was dead when
> > these poor fellows met him.  Had they managed to
> > revive him -- especially to
> > functional return -- most observers would
> > characterize the outcome as one
> > degree or other of miracle.  Even expert healthcare
> > providers would admit
> > that such is well beyond the routine.
> >
> > So in objective terms, the medics are accused of
> > failure to perform a
> > miracle.
> >
> > Just what standard are we aiming for?
> >
> > Pret Bjorn, RN
> > Bangor, ME USA
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
> > [mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org]
> > On Behalf Of Sohail Muzammil
> > Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 4:48 AM
> > To: Trauma & Critical Care mailing list
> > Subject: Re: Wrongful Life vs Wrongful Death
> >
> > Way to go Bob
> >
> > S Muzammil, FRCS
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bob Waddell II" <bobwaddell at bresnan.net>
> > To: "'Trauma & Critical Care mailing list'"
> > <trauma-list at trauma.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, 18 January, 2007 9:30 PM
> > Subject: RE: Wrongful Life vs Wrongful Death
> >
> >
> > No disrespect Mr. or Dr. Horan, but it is equally
> > possible the patient was
> > stung by a bee or hit by a micro meteorite causing
> > asystole.  It is summer
> > in Queensland and they are remarkably close to the
> > hole in the Ozone layer.
> >
> >
> > Several have stated that the published evidence was
> > scant at best.  What is
> > deficient here is the lack of knowledge of human
> > physiology interacting with
> > common sense.  Some trauma is non-survivable.  At
> > other times the patient
> > simple has not read the book on how they are suppose
> > to survive an event or
> > how they are suppose to perish from it.  We did fail
> > Dr. Holmes in not
> > finding the published evidence because it would
> > appear that there is none to
> > support our various opinions.  Equally important, in
> > my opinion, is the fact
> > that we and I will assume the defense
> > lawyers/professional defense witnesses
> > have no published evidence to support their claims
> > either.  Some patients
> > die and often the people with the most difficult
> > decisions to make are the
> > ones chastised for making the wrong decision,
> > regardless of which decision
> > they would have made.  Death often has a "No Win"
> > outcome for those trying
> > the hardest to care.
> >
> > My personal opinion and only mine.
> >
> > Take care,
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > (307) 920 - 2020 cell
> >
> > bobwaddell at bresnan.net
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
> > [mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org]
> > On Behalf Of Thomas Anthony Horan
> > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 8:03 AM
> > To: Trauma & Critical Care mailing list
> > Subject: RE: Wrongful Life vs Wrongful Death
> >
> > Dear K and fellow travellers,
> >
> > Apart from testimonials not one of you have been
> > able to post one shread of
> > help from the literature, or guidelines from
> > associations, hospitals or
> > professional organizations. In otherwords your help
> > has all been passing gas
> > per os and a promise of a junket to Australia. it is
> > possible that the
> > patient became asystolic the moment prior to
> > extrication. it is possible
> > that even if brain dead he would have made a good
> > donor if ressusitated.
> > apart from your declarations of support what do your
> > hospital and EMS
> > guidelines state to cover this situation?
> >
> > That is afterall the request that John made in his
> > first post.
> >
> > tom horan
> >
> > > ----------
> > > From:
> >
> trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org[SMTP:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org]
> > on
> > behalf of KMATTOX at aol.com[SMTP:KMATTOX at aol.com]
> > > Reply To: Trauma & Critical Care mailing list
> > > Sent: quinta-feira, 18 de janeiro de 2007 12:06
> > > To: trauma-list at trauma.org
> > > Subject: Re: Wrongful Life vs Wrongful Death
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 1/17/2007 5:06:56 P.M. Central
> > Standard Time,
> > > bobwaddell at bresnan.net writes:
> > >
> > > Dr.  Mattox - I think you're going to need a 747
> > or larger for your group
> > of
> > > expert witnesses!!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bob:   I like your attitude.   Are you on board to
> > help  defend fellow
> > > clinicians if needed?    I hope  so,    I would
> > suspect that if necessary
> > we could
> > > mobilize more  than 500 people to appear in any
> > court in the world.
> > >
> > > k
> > > --
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> > >
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> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
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> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Wrongful Life vs Wrongful Death, yet again