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Sat Jan 20 16:53:15 GMT 2007

just to weigh in on this, and I haven't got the whole
story, but...

Ten years ago, I was a kid working as a X-ray
assistant/transporter in a NYC hosptial ER, and we had
a trauma come in, I can't remember what hit him but he
had open and depressed skull fractures, spinal
fractures, the works. the team stabilized him, we took
films, he coded, stabilized, crashed, and after 15
minutes of watching the team work on this guy, and
seeing the films and knowing that it was a slim shot 
he'd ever open his eyes again if he lived, let alone
be anything close to the person he had been, I
remarked to the technician I was assisting that it
seemed like a bit of a waste to keep torturing him
like this as it seemd hopeless. The tech told me that
thats not our (meaning medical personell's) decision
to make. We do everything in our power to prevent
death...we don't make a decision if it is pointless,
or worthwhile, to do so. We do it. So if anyone has a
problem with these medics for not attempting a
resusitation, I suppose it's along this line of
reasoning. I can't imagine anyone having a issue if
this patient was d-e-a-d when they found him. 
J 
--- Pret Bjorn <p.bjorn at netzero.net> wrote:

> Any way you look at it, this case begins with a dead
> patient.  In U.S. civil
> law, there is keen awareness of "damaged goods." 
> Clinicians who are unable
> to improve on pre-existing extremes of condition are
> not held to the same
> accounting as those who through negligence allow, or
> contribute to,
> morbidity or mortality.
> 
> How this translates overseas, I don't know.  But the
> victim was dead when
> these poor fellows met him.  Had they managed to
> revive him -- especially to
> functional return -- most observers would
> characterize the outcome as one
> degree or other of miracle.  Even expert healthcare
> providers would admit
> that such is well beyond the routine.
> 
> So in objective terms, the medics are accused of
> failure to perform a
> miracle.  
> 
> Just what standard are we aiming for?
> 
> Pret Bjorn, RN
> Bangor, ME USA
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
> [mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org]
> On Behalf Of Sohail Muzammil
> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 4:48 AM
> To: Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list
> Subject: Re: Wrongful Life vs Wrongful Death
> 
> Way to go Bob
> 
> S Muzammil, FRCS
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Waddell II" <bobwaddell at bresnan.net>
> To: "'Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list'"
> <trauma-list at trauma.org>
> Sent: Thursday, 18 January, 2007 9:30 PM
> Subject: RE: Wrongful Life vs Wrongful Death
> 
> 
> No disrespect Mr. or Dr. Horan, but it is equally
> possible the patient was
> stung by a bee or hit by a micro meteorite causing
> asystole.  It is summer
> in Queensland and they are remarkably close to the
> hole in the Ozone layer.
> 
> 
> Several have stated that the published evidence was
> scant at best.  What is
> deficient here is the lack of knowledge of human
> physiology interacting with
> common sense.  Some trauma is non-survivable.  At
> other times the patient
> simple has not read the book on how they are suppose
> to survive an event or
> how they are suppose to perish from it.  We did fail
> Dr. Holmes in not
> finding the published evidence because it would
> appear that there is none to
> support our various opinions.  Equally important, in
> my opinion, is the fact
> that we and I will assume the defense
> lawyers/professional defense witnesses
> have no published evidence to support their claims
> either.  Some patients
> die and often the people with the most difficult
> decisions to make are the
> ones chastised for making the wrong decision,
> regardless of which decision
> they would have made.  Death often has a "No Win"
> outcome for those trying
> the hardest to care.
> 
> My personal opinion and only mine.
> 
> Take care,
> 
> Bob
> 
> (307) 920 - 2020 cell
> 
> bobwaddell at bresnan.net
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
> [mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org]
> On Behalf Of Thomas Anthony Horan
> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 8:03 AM
> To: Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list
> Subject: RE: Wrongful Life vs Wrongful Death
> 
> Dear K and fellow travellers,
> 
> Apart from testimonials not one of you have been
> able to post one shread of
> help from the literature, or guidelines from
> associations, hospitals or
> professional organizations. In otherwords your help
> has all been passing gas
> per os and a promise of a junket to Australia. it is
> possible that the
> patient became asystolic the moment prior to
> extrication. it is possible
> that even if brain dead he would have made a good
> donor if ressusitated.
> apart from your declarations of support what do your
> hospital and EMS
> guidelines state to cover this situation?
> 
> That is afterall the request that John made in his
> first post.
> 
> tom horan
> 
> > ----------
> > From:
>
trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org[SMTP:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org]
> on
> behalf of KMATTOX at aol.com[SMTP:KMATTOX at aol.com]
> > Reply To: Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list
> > Sent: quinta-feira, 18 de janeiro de 2007 12:06
> > To: trauma-list at trauma.org
> > Subject: Re: Wrongful Life vs Wrongful Death
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 1/17/2007 5:06:56 P.M. Central
> Standard Time,
> > bobwaddell at bresnan.net writes:
> >
> > Dr.  Mattox - I think you're going to need a 747
> or larger for your group
> of
> > expert witnesses!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob:   I like your attitude.   Are you on board to
> help  defend fellow
> > clinicians if needed?    I hope  so,    I would
> suspect that if necessary
> we could
> > mobilize more  than 500 people to appear in any
> court in the world.
> >
> > k
> > --
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> >
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> 
> 
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Wrongful Life vs Wrongful Death, yet again