Quik-Clot

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Yes I have used it a few times out here in Iraq, I am a team leader of a reconnaissance unit working in close support of US Army Corp of Engineers, we have steered away from Quick Clot as we found certain people did not receive the correct training and were using it when no need and in large quantities causing further injury complications when the casualty was reaching the military field stations/hospital.

I rate the Hemcon for sure, like I have said used it a few times out here, very simple to employ but very effective for my line of work in Iraq.


Regards,


John Harris
Team Leader
Reconstruction Liaison Team 11
USACE - N.Babil/Karbala/Najaf Resident Office
FOB Kalsu
 
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-----Original Message-----
From: even.klein at comcast.net [mailto:even.klein at comcast.net] 
Sent: 15 August 2007 20:24
To: Trauma & Critical Care mailing list; Trauma & Critical Care mailing list; trauma-list at trauma.org
Cc: Stephen Richey
Subject: Re: Quik-Clot



-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: even.klein at comcast.net 

> Has anyone had any experience with HemCon? It is a hemorragic control bandage 
> that stops arterial/venous bleeding in 2 mins with steady presssure. It is made 
> from Chitosan--a protein from Artic shrimp shell; it is very impressive and 
> seems to do what it says it will do. The Army did a lot of R and D in 
> conjunction with the company "HemCon". Deployed Army soldiers are carrying 
> several in their packs and medics are carrying at least 5. Check-out the 
> web-site at HemCon.com 
> Let me know if you have any questions about it. 
> My e-mail is : suzanne.thornburg at Cardinal.com 
> 
> 
> -------------- Original message -------------- 
> From: "Stephen Richey" 
> 
> > Dr. Wigle, 
> > I'm finishing up a final revision of a literature review on tourniquets and 
> > one of the things I have encountered is evidence that they can be left on 
> > for several hours, I believe twelve hours being the longest I have seen 
> > described without serious complications. However that was in a cold 
> > environment during WWII, so I don't know how well that could be extrapolated 
> > to the deserts of the Middle East. Most likely, whomever told you 24 hours 
> > was either misinformed or at least relying upon evidence I do not have 
> > access to. Even I, one of the most staunch supporters of their use under 
> > appropriate circumstances, would cringe at such a suggestion. But then 
> > again, I know how well the military takes to having inconsistencies or 
> > errors being pointed out by people outside of positions of 
> > authority.....that is a topic for another time though. 
> > 
> > However, if you are familiar with the article by Rasmussen et al regarding 
> > vascular injuries presenting to Balad, there were few, if any, cases of 
> > extremely prolonged field times associated with those who presented with 
> > tourniquets in place. The vast majority of patients were in the Theater 
> > Hospital within an hour of being wounded. I don't have that paper directly 
> > in front of me at the moment, so that is why I can't speak in absolute terms 
> > regarding it. 
> > 
> > Also interestingly I should point out that the one of my experiences with 
> > QuikClot was a laceration on my thumb and I figured it was a good chance to 
> > try out a sample of it that I had received on a half inch laceration without 
> > arterial injury or other complicating issues. It did not even seem to do 
> > anything worthy of note. However, your mileage may vary. 
> > 
> > > 
> > > ------------------------------ 
> > > 
> > > Message: 2 
> > > Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 05:03:05 -0700 (PDT) 
> > > From: Richard Wigle MD FACS 
> > > Subject: Re: Quik-Clot 
> > > To: "Trauma &, Critical Care mailing list" 
> > > Message-ID: <43009.1129.qm at web38806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> 
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 
> > > 
> > > AS Far as I know Quikclot is still being used in the Iraqi 
> > > theater. I've been retired about 5 months now and so have 
> > > been out of the loop. My personal experience with it wasn't 
> > > especially impressive other than having to clean it up, the 
> > > thermal problems were, again in my experience, annecdotal. 
> > > 
> > > As Stephen notes I think one of the major problems with it 
> > > and some of the other products is that they tend to become 
> > > an excuse for incomplete training and, when introduced at 
> > > the lowest levels, become a wonder cure for all that ails 
> > > you. I saw the same thing with tourniquet use and, while 
> > > there is absolutely no doubt that tourniquets have saved 
> > > many lives in Iraq, they were being applied in place of 
> > > proper dressing (granted that in the field proper dressing 
> > > sometimes becomes a luxury). At any rate I was actually 
> > > told as part of my training (same as the enlisted folks 
> > > got- one size fits all but it was enlightening)that 
> > > touriquets could be left in place for 24 hours and when I 
> > > suggested that perhaps this was not the way to go I was 
> > > told not to upset the apple cart. 
> > > 
> > > Anyway we have to remember that many of these products are 
> > > being touted by people with a personal stake in there use. 
> > > I recently pulled out a couple of reviews on all the 
> > > products. I'm on the road at present and my computer has 
> > > crashed so I'm relying on internet cafes and hotel access 
> > > points but if anyone is interested once I get someplace 
> > > stable I will be happy to forward them, they're not hard to 
> > > find with google scholar. 
> > > 
> > > I'm sure others out there have had different experiences 
> > > with all of these products 
> > > 
> > > R Wigle 
> > > --- Stephen Richey wrote: 
> > > 
> > > > I am not certain if it is still being used in Iraq and 
> > > > Afghanistan or not. 
> > > > I have only anecdotal evidence (n= ~5) for the use of 
> > > > Quikclot in my 
> > > > personal experience (in civilian situations), but I have 
> > > > to say I wasn't 
> > > > that impressed by it. It just seems to make one heck of 
> > > > a mess of things 
> > > > but not really do much in the way of hemostasis beyond 
> > > > what you would 
> > > > normally get from a pressure dressing. I used to teach 
> > > > the US Army combat 
> > > > lifesaver course (last time I taught it was in 2003) and 
> > > > I personally 
> > > > deemphasized (I covered it but put a word of caution in 
> > > > the presentation 
> > > > about the hazards of relying upon such agents when more 
> > > > efficacious methods 
> > > > exist) the use of currently available hemostatic agents 
> > > > in favor of 
> > > > aggressive use of pressure dressings and tourniquets for 
> > > > immediate 
> > > > hemorrhage control on extremities, particularly in a care 
> > > > under fire 
> > > > setting. 
> > > > 
> > > > If I can offer any further information on the US 
> > > > military's training, please 
> > > > let me know. If I don't have a solid answer for you, I 
> > > > can put you in touch 
> > > > with some contacts of mine who might be better positioned 
> > > > to advise you. 
> > > > Feel free to contact me off the list. Have a nice day. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > -- 
> > > > Stephen L. Richey, CRT 
> > > > 
> > > > "It is better to know some of the questions than all of 
> > > > the answers."- James 
> > > > Thurber 
> > > > -- 
> > > > trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG 
> > > > To change your settings or unsubscribe visit: 
> > > > http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/ 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> ________________________________________________________________________________ 
> > ____ 
> > > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who 
> > > knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. 
> > > http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ------------------------------ 
> > > 
> > > Message: 3 
> > > Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:39:06 +0100 
> > > From: "JOSE SUAREZ PELAEZ" 
> > > Subject: Re: Estimated fluid and blood losses classification. 
> > > To: "Trauma & Critical Care mailing list" 
> > > Message-ID: <002901c7df0f$5e3084d0$2501a8c0 at pc> 
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; 
> > > reply-type=original 
> > > 
> > > Thanks for your help. 
> > > Yes, that is what i was looking for but i just need to know where it was 
> > > publiclated by the first time by American College of Surgeon. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "S Schecter" 
> > > To: "Trauma &, Critical Care mailing list" 
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 12:40 PM 
> > > Subject: Re: Estimated fluid and blood losses classification. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Is that what you were looking for 
> > > 
> > > On 8/12/07, JOSE SUAREZ PELAEZ wrote: 
> > > > 
> > > > I can´t find the first publication of the "Estimated fluid and blood 
> > > > losses" classification. Does anyone can help me? 
> > > > 
> > > > J.Suález-Peláez. 
> > > > -- 
> > > > trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG 
> > > > To change your settings or unsubscribe visit: 
> > > > http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/ 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > -- 
> > > > trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG 
> > > > To change your settings or unsubscribe visit: 
> > > > http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/ 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ------------------------------ 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG 
> > > To change your settings or unsubscribe visit: 
> > > http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/ 
> > > 
> > > End of trauma-list Digest, Vol 50, Issue 22 
> > > ******************************************* 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Stephen L. Richey, CRT 
> > 
> > "It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers."- James 
> > Thurber 
> > -- 
> > trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG 
> > To change your settings or unsubscribe visit: 
> > http://www.trauma.org/index.php?/community/ 
> -- 
> trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG 
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