List Archives

Wed Apr 25 10:54:07 BST 2007

if l may,greg said he hunts for a sports and actually  good reasons,but
there are silent psychos who get access to deadly weapons just as easy as
the next guy and that makes a hole lot bigger threat to the society which is
quite preventable
isn't it easier to make laws more strict in order to prevent real potential
killers from having excellent access to guns and prevent some normal
non-threating folks from having the same in the process rather then gaining
unnecessary threat
and your arguments about actually reducing health care expenditure are
correct but there are other ways which are at least same efficient and much
more dangerous such as simple no-gun involved camping and all the other
activities that go along
ante

2007/4/25, Greg Benton <gregbenton at optusnet.com.au>:
>
> No offense taken Stewart, I hope I didnt come across that way, it wasnt my
> intent.
>
> cheers
> go al
> Greg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
> [mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org]On Behalf Of Stewart Chan
> Sent: Wednesday, 25 April 2007 2:26 PM
> To: trauma-list at trauma.org
> Subject: RE: banning cars
>
>
> Thanks for your answer. I have no offence when I used the word
> "civilised".
>
> There should be a better way for licensing possession of firearms, to
> separate people like you who have legitimate reasons to own a gun, from
> the
> mentally-ill killers.
>
> Reports said this killer just walked in a shop to buy guns and ammunition.
> It is too easy. There are thousands of similarly ill people out there.
> This
> cannot be allowed to happen.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Greg Benton" <gregbenton at optusnet.com.au>
> >Reply-To: "Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list"
> ><trauma-list at trauma.org>
> >To: "Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list" <trauma-list at trauma.org>
> >Subject: RE: banning cars
> >Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:24:12 +1000
> >
> >
> >Stewart I question the emotive language used here, what does a
> "civilised"
> >society have to do with the gun ownership arguement, why is it that you
> >imply owning firearms makes me uncivilised?
> >
> >My answer to your questions is that the purpose of gun ownership is
> diverse
> >eg for hunting, target shooting competition, some folks collect mitary
> and
> >antique firearms. I own them because I hunt, I hunt because I like to eat
> >game meat. Why eat game meat? Because its lean, healthy, I have to get
> off
> >my behind and walk mountains to harvest it and it, its cost effective and
> >tastes great. I know my meat doesnt all come plastic wrapped and
> >preservative loaded from a supermarket, I take great pleaseure in the
> >preparation of the meat for my family to consume. I shoot beacause I
> enjoy
> >the technical aspects of the sport from reloading my own ammunition, the
> >challenges of competition to the mechanics of tuning a firearm to perform
> >for me. In all of this I probably contribute several thousand dollars a
> >year
> >to my local economy, I have a tight knit family unit and regularly spend
> >time in the bush with my wife and 4 kids camping, teaching them bushcraft
> >skills and an appreciation for the environment. None of my kids are obese
> >or
> >have health problems. So I guess in todays "civilised" society that makes
> >us
> >a bit freaky, we are a two parent family with good relationships with our
> >kids and we enjoy being together.
> >
> >I live in rural australia, self defense is a long way from my mind when I
> >think of firearms, its just not neccesary here. But whilst you have a
> >substantial armed criminal element and clearly you cannot rely on police
> to
> >rescue you everytime, why should decent law abiding folks not be allowed
> to
> >arm themselves for their own protection. Very clearly from the volume of
> >violent crimes now appearing in our society the police cannot do it all.
> >Should a person have to be bashed senseless, stabbed or shot and then
> wait
> >for the police to apprehend the culprit retrospectively?
> >
> >Is it justified in the wake of what just happened? well thats a chicken
> and
> >egg kind arguement isnt it, clearly the police were not able to reduce
> the
> >threat on this occaision as people were killed over several hours. Could
> a
> >ban on guns remove all guns legal and illegal from the community?
> probably
> >not, so criminals will still have them, could an armed citizen have
> >terminated the threat had they been allowed to carry on the VT college
> >campus? probably yes if they were a halfway decent shot.
> >
> >Is our society civilised really? a few years ago I looked after an 87yr
> old
> >lady that was bashed, raped and robbed of $60 dollars by a 17yr old, that
> >crime was a death sentence for her, she never recovered........this was a
> >crime that you would never have heard of 30 years ago, society is not a
> >nice
> >place, and becoming less nice as time rolls on. I dont know how you solve
> >the dilemma, violent crime is increasing, the police are not able to keep
> >up
> >with demand, society is in decline and increasingly I ponder where the
> >decay
> >is going to end. Broken families, homelessness, drug use, crime, mental
> >illness are all symptoms of a damaged society but how do we fix it?
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
> >[mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org]On Behalf Of Stewart Chan
> >Sent: Wednesday, 25 April 2007 10:27 AM
> >To: trauma-list at trauma.org
> >Subject: Re: banning cars
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >What are the purpose of guns other than shooting?
> >
> >display in an exhibition?
> >
> >In these debates, what is the argument for ordinary citizens to possess
> >guns? Is it justified for self-defence in a civilised society? Given what
> >has just happenned?
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Jago Miloguz" <japrak at gmail.com>
> > >Reply-To: "Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list"
> > ><trauma-list at trauma.org>
> > >To: "Trauma &amp, Critical Care mailing list" <trauma-list at trauma.org>
> > >Subject: Re: banning cars
> > >Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:26:13 +0200
> > >
> > >and of course guns have purpose other then  shooting... Americans have
> >too
> > >easy approach to weapons and by implementing more strict laws maybe
> > >violence
> > >would reduce,of course this is very questionable but still it is
> >ridiculous
> > >to compare guns to cars....
> > >ante
> > >
> > >2007/4/23, Jason Cillo <jasoncillo at comcast.net>:
> > >>
> > >>I'm with you. Further, as an emergency physician who works at a level
> 1
> > >>trauma center, I would like to add that perhaps we should also ban
> trees
> > >>--
> > >>you wouldn't believe the number of trauma patients I see especially at
> > >>night
> > >>who are poor intoxicated victims of single vehicle accidents versus
> >trees!
> > >>: )
> > >>
> > >>Jason Cillo, MD
> > >>Richmond, VA
> > >>USA
> > >>
> > >>----- Original Message ----- > trauma-list-owner at trauma.org
> > >> > Message: 2
> > >> > Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:03:33 -0400
> > >> > From: "William Bromberg" <brombwi1 at memorialhealth.com>
> > >> > Subject: Re: Gun control, Religion, IEDs, knives, Suicide Bombers,
> > >> > Roots
> > >> > To: <trauma-list at trauma.org>
> > >> > Message-ID: <462B95650200003A000024E5 at memorialhealth.com>
> > >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> > >> >
> > >> > Yes I agree totally! A total  ban on CARS the biggest trauma killer
> > >> > ever. I know they may have some value other than killing but we
> must
> >be
> > >> > prepared to sacrifice for the good of society and trauma
> prevention.
> > >> > Luckily cars, not being specifically protected in the constitution
> > >>would
> > >> > be easy to ban.
> > >> >
> > >> > Whose with me?
> > >> >
> > >> > William J. Bromberg, MD, FACS
> > >> > Chair, EAST Practice Management Guidelines Committee
> > >> > Savannah Surgical Group
> > >> > 912 350-7412
> > >> >
> > >> >>>> "Mohammed al Malik" <traumawon at hotmail.com> 04/21/07 1:14 PM >>>
> > >> > I am saddened by our polarizations on instruments that can harm our
> > >> > fellowmen and fellow women.  Most of us belong to a religious
> group,
> > >> > ethical
> > >> > oversight, or moral persuasion which places value on a higher
> power,
> >on
> > >> >
> > >> > faith, and on the value of individual humans.  We are in medicine
> > >> > because we
> > >> > want to help people, however trite a phrase that may be.   Guns,
> > >> > knives,
> > >> > bombs, poisons, and all sorts of harmful drugs, devices, and
> > >> > instruments are
> > >> > being used in the name of religion, government, tribal, sectarian,
> >and
> > >> >
> > >> > personal identity and protection.   We the medical community must
> >take
> > >> > care
> > >> > of these life style, societal, and violence problems.   Yes, it is
> > >> > proper
> > >> > that we have our own values, but do we have root responsibility?
> Is
> > >> > there
> > >> > a global root cause that causes us to have a need to have these
> >hateful
> > >> > and
> > >> > angry discussions?
> > >> >
> > >> > Mohammed al Malik
> > >> >
> > >> > _________________________________________________________________
> > >> > Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft
> > >> > Office
> > >> > Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
> > >> >
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> > >> >
> > >> >
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