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Wed Apr 25 07:01:48 BST 2007

No offense taken Stewart, I hope I didnt come across that way, it wasnt my
intent.

cheers

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
[mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org]On Behalf Of Stewart Chan
Sent: Wednesday, 25 April 2007 2:26 PM
To: trauma-list at trauma.org
Subject: RE: banning cars

Thanks for your answer. I have no offence when I used the word "civilised".

There should be a better way for licensing possession of firearms, to
separate people like you who have legitimate reasons to own a gun, from the
mentally-ill killers.

Reports said this killer just walked in a shop to buy guns and ammunition.
It is too easy. There are thousands of similarly ill people out there. This
cannot be allowed to happen.

>From: "Greg Benton" <gregbenton at optusnet.com.au>
>Reply-To: "Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list"
><trauma-list at trauma.org>
>To: "Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list" <trauma-list at trauma.org>
>Subject: RE: banning cars
>Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:24:12 +1000
>
>
>Stewart I question the emotive language used here, what does a "civilised"
>society have to do with the gun ownership arguement, why is it that you
>imply owning firearms makes me uncivilised?
>
>My answer to your questions is that the purpose of gun ownership is diverse
>eg for hunting, target shooting competition, some folks collect mitary and
>antique firearms. I own them because I hunt, I hunt because I like to eat
>game meat. Why eat game meat? Because its lean, healthy, I have to get off
>my behind and walk mountains to harvest it and it, its cost effective and
>tastes great. I know my meat doesnt all come plastic wrapped and
>preservative loaded from a supermarket, I take great pleaseure in the
>preparation of the meat for my family to consume. I shoot beacause I enjoy
>the technical aspects of the sport from reloading my own ammunition, the
>challenges of competition to the mechanics of tuning a firearm to perform
>for me. In all of this I probably contribute several thousand dollars a
>year
>to my local economy, I have a tight knit family unit and regularly spend
>time in the bush with my wife and 4 kids camping, teaching them bushcraft
>skills and an appreciation for the environment. None of my kids are obese
>or
>have health problems. So I guess in todays "civilised" society that makes
>us
>a bit freaky, we are a two parent family with good relationships with our
>kids and we enjoy being together.
>
>I live in rural australia, self defense is a long way from my mind when I
>think of firearms, its just not neccesary here. But whilst you have a
>substantial armed criminal element and clearly you cannot rely on police to
>rescue you everytime, why should decent law abiding folks not be allowed to
>arm themselves for their own protection. Very clearly from the volume of
>violent crimes now appearing in our society the police cannot do it all.
>Should a person have to be bashed senseless, stabbed or shot and then wait
>for the police to apprehend the culprit retrospectively?
>
>Is it justified in the wake of what just happened? well thats a chicken and
>egg kind arguement isnt it, clearly the police were not able to reduce the
>threat on this occaision as people were killed over several hours. Could a
>ban on guns remove all guns legal and illegal from the community? probably
>not, so criminals will still have them, could an armed citizen have
>terminated the threat had they been allowed to carry on the VT college
>campus? probably yes if they were a halfway decent shot.
>
>Is our society civilised really? a few years ago I looked after an 87yr old
>lady that was bashed, raped and robbed of $60 dollars by a 17yr old, that
>crime was a death sentence for her, she never recovered........this was a
>crime that you would never have heard of 30 years ago, society is not a
>nice
>place, and becoming less nice as time rolls on. I dont know how you solve
>the dilemma, violent crime is increasing, the police are not able to keep
>up
>with demand, society is in decline and increasingly I ponder where the
>decay
>is going to end. Broken families, homelessness, drug use, crime, mental
>illness are all symptoms of a damaged society but how do we fix it?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
>[mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org]On Behalf Of Stewart Chan
>Sent: Wednesday, 25 April 2007 10:27 AM
>To: trauma-list at trauma.org
>Subject: Re: banning cars
>
>
>
>
>
>What are the purpose of guns other than shooting?
>
>display in an exhibition?
>
>In these debates, what is the argument for ordinary citizens to possess
>guns? Is it justified for self-defence in a civilised society? Given what
>has just happenned?
>
>
>
> >From: "Jago Miloguz" <japrak at gmail.com>
> >Reply-To: "Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list"
> ><trauma-list at trauma.org>
> >To: "Trauma &amp, Critical Care mailing list" <trauma-list at trauma.org>
> >Subject: Re: banning cars
> >Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:26:13 +0200
> >
> >and of course guns have purpose other then  shooting... Americans have
>too
> >easy approach to weapons and by implementing more strict laws maybe
> >violence
> >would reduce,of course this is very questionable but still it is
>ridiculous
> >to compare guns to cars....
> >ante
> >
> >2007/4/23, Jason Cillo <jasoncillo at comcast.net>:
> >>
> >>I'm with you. Further, as an emergency physician who works at a level 1
> >>trauma center, I would like to add that perhaps we should also ban trees
> >>--
> >>you wouldn't believe the number of trauma patients I see especially at
> >>night
> >>who are poor intoxicated victims of single vehicle accidents versus
>trees!
> >>: )
> >>
> >>Jason Cillo, MD
> >>Richmond, VA
> >>USA
> >>
> >>----- Original Message ----- > trauma-list-owner at trauma.org
> >> > Message: 2
> >> > Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:03:33 -0400
> >> > From: "William Bromberg" <brombwi1 at memorialhealth.com>
> >> > Subject: Re: Gun control, Religion, IEDs, knives, Suicide Bombers,
> >> > Roots
> >> > To: <trauma-list at trauma.org>
> >> > Message-ID: <462B95650200003A000024E5 at memorialhealth.com>
> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> >> >
> >> > Yes I agree totally! A total  ban on CARS the biggest trauma killer
> >> > ever. I know they may have some value other than killing but we must
>be
> >> > prepared to sacrifice for the good of society and trauma prevention.
> >> > Luckily cars, not being specifically protected in the constitution
> >>would
> >> > be easy to ban.
> >> >
> >> > Whose with me?
> >> >
> >> > William J. Bromberg, MD, FACS
> >> > Chair, EAST Practice Management Guidelines Committee
> >> > Savannah Surgical Group
> >> > 912 350-7412
> >> >
> >> >>>> "Mohammed al Malik" <traumawon at hotmail.com> 04/21/07 1:14 PM >>>
> >> > I am saddened by our polarizations on instruments that can harm our
> >> > fellowmen and fellow women.  Most of us belong to a religious group,
> >> > ethical
> >> > oversight, or moral persuasion which places value on a higher power,
>on
> >> >
> >> > faith, and on the value of individual humans.  We are in medicine
> >> > because we
> >> > want to help people, however trite a phrase that may be.   Guns,
> >> > knives,
> >> > bombs, poisons, and all sorts of harmful drugs, devices, and
> >> > instruments are
> >> > being used in the name of religion, government, tribal, sectarian,
>and
> >> >
> >> > personal identity and protection.   We the medical community must
>take
> >> > care
> >> > of these life style, societal, and violence problems.   Yes, it is
> >> > proper
> >> > that we have our own values, but do we have root responsibility?   Is
> >> > there
> >> > a global root cause that causes us to have a need to have these
>hateful
> >> > and
> >> > angry discussions?
> >> >
> >> > Mohammed al Malik
> >> >
> >> > _________________________________________________________________
> >> > Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft
> >> > Office
> >> > Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
> >> >
> >> > --
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> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
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