List Archives

Wed Apr 25 03:24:12 BST 2007

Stewart I question the emotive language used here, what does a "civilised"
society have to do with the gun ownership arguement, why is it that you
imply owning firearms makes me uncivilised?

My answer to your questions is that the purpose of gun ownership is diverse
eg for hunting, target shooting competition, some folks collect mitary and
antique firearms. I own them because I hunt, I hunt because I like to eat
game meat. Why eat game meat? Because its lean, healthy, I have to get off
my behind and walk mountains to harvest it and it, its cost effective and
tastes great. I know my meat doesnt all come plastic wrapped and
preservative loaded from a supermarket, I take great pleaseure in the
preparation of the meat for my family to consume. I shoot beacause I enjoy
the technical aspects of the sport from reloading my own ammunition, the
challenges of competition to the mechanics of tuning a firearm to perform
for me. In all of this I probably contribute several thousand dollars a year
to my local economy, I have a tight knit family unit and regularly spend
time in the bush with my wife and 4 kids camping, teaching them bushcraft
skills and an appreciation for the environment. None of my kids are obese or
have health problems. So I guess in todays "civilised" society that makes us
a bit freaky, we are a two parent family with good relationships with our
kids and we enjoy being together.

I live in rural australia, self defense is a long way from my mind when I
think of firearms, its just not neccesary here. But whilst you have a
substantial armed criminal element and clearly you cannot rely on police to
rescue you everytime, why should decent law abiding folks not be allowed to
arm themselves for their own protection. Very clearly from the volume of
violent crimes now appearing in our society the police cannot do it all.
Should a person have to be bashed senseless, stabbed or shot and then wait
for the police to apprehend the culprit retrospectively?

Is it justified in the wake of what just happened? well thats a chicken and
egg kind arguement isnt it, clearly the police were not able to reduce the
threat on this occaision as people were killed over several hours. Could a
ban on guns remove all guns legal and illegal from the community? probably
not, so criminals will still have them, could an armed citizen have
terminated the threat had they been allowed to carry on the VT college
campus? probably yes if they were a halfway decent shot.

Is our society civilised really? a few years ago I looked after an 87yr old
lady that was bashed, raped and robbed of $60 dollars by a 17yr old, that
crime was a death sentence for her, she never recovered........this was a
crime that you would never have heard of 30 years ago, society is not a nice
place, and becoming less nice as time rolls on. I dont know how you solve
the dilemma, violent crime is increasing, the police are not able to keep up
with demand, society is in decline and increasingly I ponder where the decay
is going to end. Broken families, homelessness, drug use, crime, mental
illness are all symptoms of a damaged society but how do we fix it?

-----Original Message-----
From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
[mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org]On Behalf Of Stewart Chan
Sent: Wednesday, 25 April 2007 10:27 AM
To: trauma-list at trauma.org
Subject: Re: banning cars

What are the purpose of guns other than shooting?

display in an exhibition?

In these debates, what is the argument for ordinary citizens to possess
guns? Is it justified for self-defence in a civilised society? Given what
has just happenned?

>From: "Jago Miloguz" <japrak at gmail.com>
>Reply-To: "Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list"
><trauma-list at trauma.org>
>To: "Trauma &amp, Critical Care mailing list" <trauma-list at trauma.org>
>Subject: Re: banning cars
>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:26:13 +0200
>
>and of course guns have purpose other then  shooting... Americans have too
>easy approach to weapons and by implementing more strict laws maybe
>violence
>would reduce,of course this is very questionable but still it is ridiculous
>to compare guns to cars....
>ante
>
>2007/4/23, Jason Cillo <jasoncillo at comcast.net>:
>>
>>I'm with you. Further, as an emergency physician who works at a level 1
>>trauma center, I would like to add that perhaps we should also ban trees
>>--
>>you wouldn't believe the number of trauma patients I see especially at
>>night
>>who are poor intoxicated victims of single vehicle accidents versus trees!
>>: )
>>
>>Jason Cillo, MD
>>Richmond, VA
>>USA
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- > trauma-list-owner at trauma.org
>> > Message: 2
>> > Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:03:33 -0400
>> > From: "William Bromberg" <brombwi1 at memorialhealth.com>
>> > Subject: Re: Gun control, Religion, IEDs, knives, Suicide Bombers,
>> > Roots
>> > To: <trauma-list at trauma.org>
>> > Message-ID: <462B95650200003A000024E5 at memorialhealth.com>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>> >
>> > Yes I agree totally! A total  ban on CARS the biggest trauma killer
>> > ever. I know they may have some value other than killing but we must be
>> > prepared to sacrifice for the good of society and trauma prevention.
>> > Luckily cars, not being specifically protected in the constitution
>>would
>> > be easy to ban.
>> >
>> > Whose with me?
>> >
>> > William J. Bromberg, MD, FACS
>> > Chair, EAST Practice Management Guidelines Committee
>> > Savannah Surgical Group
>> > 912 350-7412
>> >
>> >>>> "Mohammed al Malik" <traumawon at hotmail.com> 04/21/07 1:14 PM >>>
>> > I am saddened by our polarizations on instruments that can harm our
>> > fellowmen and fellow women.  Most of us belong to a religious group,
>> > ethical
>> > oversight, or moral persuasion which places value on a higher power, on
>> >
>> > faith, and on the value of individual humans.  We are in medicine
>> > because we
>> > want to help people, however trite a phrase that may be.   Guns,
>> > knives,
>> > bombs, poisons, and all sorts of harmful drugs, devices, and
>> > instruments are
>> > being used in the name of religion, government, tribal, sectarian, and
>> >
>> > personal identity and protection.   We the medical community must take
>> > care
>> > of these life style, societal, and violence problems.   Yes, it is
>> > proper
>> > that we have our own values, but do we have root responsibility?   Is
>> > there
>> > a global root cause that causes us to have a need to have these hateful
>> > and
>> > angry discussions?
>> >
>> > Mohammed al Malik
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft
>> > Office
>> > Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
>> >
>> > --
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>>
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