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Mon Apr 23 14:30:12 BST 2007

Dear Pret,

The debate is endless frustrating and depressing as you suggest. However, it is a neceesary debate, should and must be continued in all available venues there being no way to avoid it. To do otherwise will support the contiuation of the current diasterous situation in which the greatest danger to man is man himself.

Tom

> ----------
> From: 	trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org[SMTP:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] on behalf of Bjorn, Pret[SMTP:pbjorn at emh.org]
> Reply To: 	Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list
> Sent: 	segunda-feira, 23 de abril de 2007 09:33
> To: 	Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list
> Subject: 	RE: Australia and Gun control...
> 
> Okay.  So fix society.  Legislate morality.  Enforce judgment...
> manners...  sobriety...  sanity...   but don't subject me to a
> background check or a waiting period or safety training or registration.
> I have my rights, after all.
> 
> If the trauma-list is any example, it's clear that millions of armed
> civilians around the globe will be eager to help you, in their own ways,
> on their own terms.  Just don't piss them off.
> 
> Guns don't kill people; people kill people.  And so the logical solution
> is of course to arm ourselves against people with guns.  The Virginia
> Tech campus and the world at large (except of course most of the Middle
> East) would thus be a safer place if loaded weapons were in every
> backpack and glove box and on every bookshelf.  Surely THAT's the path
> to higher civilization.
> 
> I sit here watching ostensibly intelligent and otherwise benevolent
> healthcare providers proclaiming that guns are not a problem, but on the
> contrary, some sort of misunderstood SOLUTION.  It's utterly delusional,
> and endlessly depressing.
> 
> And so I ask again, for the third time: what good is coming of this
> discussion?  Clearly each side is deaf to the other; so what keeps us
> shouting?
> 
> Pret
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
> [mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of D.Hunter
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 10:13 PM
> To: 'Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list'
> Subject: RE: Australia and Gun control...
> 
> FINALLY !
> 
>   ITS Not, repeat not, about the freakin guns !
> 
> Its about this society !
> 
> Thank You Sir !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ronald Gross [mailto:Rgross at harthosp.org] 
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 5:35 AM
> To: Critical Care mailing list Trauma &amp
> Subject: Re: Australia and Gun control...
> 
> How about the concept of a permissive society, where parents refuse to
> discipline their kids.  
> 
> Where teachers are not allowed to enforce discipline in the classroom,
> even
> though they are the sole adult figure in the lives of many of the kids.
> 
> 
> Where violence is rampant on TV, news and movies, and the "rating
> system" is
> either ignored or considered to be merely an inconvenience to the
> parents
> who just want to dump the kids of so that there can be 2 hours of peace
> in
> the house. 
> 
> Where parents allow kids that are under age to drink in their houses
> because
> "they are gonna do it anyway, and I would rather have them do it in MY
> house", and then can't imagine why the kids are dying in
> alcohol-crashes.
> 
> Where there are laws against child abuse but not against spousal or
> senior
> abuse.  
> 
> Where the criminal justice system has more stopgaps and rights given to
> the
> accused that there are available to the victims.  
> 
> Where there are celebrations in the streets when an individual who has
> multiple arrests for DUI actually gets punished.  
> 
> Where the legal system perverts the law just to get their clients off
> 'cause
> it's their job, and of course everyone is innocent till proven guilty.
> Even
> if they know the client is guilty solely based on the evidence that was
> incorrectly collected
> 
> I could go on and on, but I think I will leave that to others on the> 
> list.
> And how about a society that allows the concept, no, that fosters the
> "it's
> all about me" attitude.
> 
> Charles said it well yesterday - perhaps we should all understand that
> everyone wants to be treated nicely at least most of the time.  Hell,
> why
> not ALL of the time.
> 
> OK - so I better shut up now.  It was a tough night in the ED last
> night....
> 
> Y'all be well,
> Ron
> 
> >>> "Bryan Boling" <bryanboling at gmail.com> 4/19/2007 8:15 AM >>>
> Not to beat a dead horse, but it's my understanding that the UK has
> tough
> gun control laws and very low gun violence (I don't know if this
> translates
> to low violence in general or if people just find different weapons...).
> Meanwhile, Washington DC has some of the toughest gun control laws in
> the US
> and some of the HIGHEST rates of gun violence.  If this is all true (and
> please correct me if it's not), it seems to me that there is some other
> factor (or factors) in play here besides gun control....
> 
> bryan
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