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Mon Apr 23 13:33:54 BST 2007

Okay.  So fix society.  Legislate morality.  Enforce judgment...
manners...  sobriety...  sanity...   but don't subject me to a
background check or a waiting period or safety training or registration.
I have my rights, after all.

If the trauma-list is any example, it's clear that millions of armed
civilians around the globe will be eager to help you, in their own ways,
on their own terms.  Just don't piss them off.

Guns don't kill people; people kill people.  And so the logical solution
is of course to arm ourselves against people with guns.  The Virginia
Tech campus and the world at large (except of course most of the Middle
East) would thus be a safer place if loaded weapons were in every
backpack and glove box and on every bookshelf.  Surely THAT's the path
to higher civilization.

I sit here watching ostensibly intelligent and otherwise benevolent
healthcare providers proclaiming that guns are not a problem, but on the
contrary, some sort of misunderstood SOLUTION.  It's utterly delusional,
and endlessly depressing.

And so I ask again, for the third time: what good is coming of this
discussion?  Clearly each side is deaf to the other; so what keeps us
shouting?

Pret

-----Original Message-----
From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
[mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of D.Hunter
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 10:13 PM
To: 'Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list'
Subject: RE: Australia and Gun control...

FINALLY !

  ITS Not, repeat not, about the freakin guns !

Its about this society !

Thank You Sir !

-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald Gross [mailto:Rgross at harthosp.org] 
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 5:35 AM
To: Critical Care mailing list Trauma &amp
Subject: Re: Australia and Gun control...

How about the concept of a permissive society, where parents refuse to
discipline their kids.  

Where teachers are not allowed to enforce discipline in the classroom,
even
though they are the sole adult figure in the lives of many of the kids.

Where violence is rampant on TV, news and movies, and the "rating
system" is
either ignored or considered to be merely an inconvenience to the
parents
who just want to dump the kids of so that there can be 2 hours of peace
in
the house. 

Where parents allow kids that are under age to drink in their houses
because
"they are gonna do it anyway, and I would rather have them do it in MY
house", and then can't imagine why the kids are dying in
alcohol-crashes.

Where there are laws against child abuse but not against spousal or
senior
abuse.  

Where the criminal justice system has more stopgaps and rights given to
the
accused that there are available to the victims.  

Where there are celebrations in the streets when an individual who has
multiple arrests for DUI actually gets punished.  

Where the legal system perverts the law just to get their clients off
'cause
it's their job, and of course everyone is innocent till proven guilty.
Even
if they know the client is guilty solely based on the evidence that was
incorrectly collected

I could go on and on, but I think I will leave that to others on the
list.
And how about a society that allows the concept, no, that fosters the
"it's
all about me" attitude.

Charles said it well yesterday - perhaps we should all understand that
everyone wants to be treated nicely at least most of the time.  Hell,
why
not ALL of the time.

OK - so I better shut up now.  It was a tough night in the ED last
night....

Y'all be well,
Ron

>>> "Bryan Boling" <bryanboling at gmail.com> 4/19/2007 8:15 AM >>>
Not to beat a dead horse, but it's my understanding that the UK has
tough
gun control laws and very low gun violence (I don't know if this
translates
to low violence in general or if people just find different weapons...).
Meanwhile, Washington DC has some of the toughest gun control laws in
the US
and some of the HIGHEST rates of gun violence.  If this is all true (and
please correct me if it's not), it seems to me that there is some other
factor (or factors) in play here besides gun control....

bryan
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Australia and Gun control...