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Sun Apr 8 16:40:10 BST 2007

I have to agree with some of the posts with Dr. Mattox  For many years now I 
have gone into some of the sate funded housing for people that cannot pay 
for housing themselves.  No matter who you talk to whether it would be a 
Firefighter, Paramedic or police officer the one thing that all agree on is 
that upon entering the homes of such people is 99% of them have a huge 
entertainment system of some kind.  All of the fancy gadgets included.  
Hi-Def surround sound, hi-def flat screen TV and hi-def whatever!  Upon 
transporting such individuals the first thing that they present is the State 
funded health card.  ( I.E medicare or in Massachusetts Medicaid.)
   We, the hard working tax payers, pay for all of there leisure and time 
off.  If you collect all of this free care free this and free that what 
incentive do you really need to have to get off of public assistance?  
Public assistance has become a way of life for some.  Not a way out as is 
was intended to be. You have to admit, Dr. Mattox has some valid points.
Anthony Caruso EMT-P
Natick, Massachusetts.

>From: "Ronald Gross" <Rgross at harthosp.org>
>Reply-To: "Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list" 
><trauma-list at trauma.org>
>To: "Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list" <trauma-list at trauma.org>
>Subject: RE: [ccm-l] Employment and benefits manipulations
>Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 13:38:02 -0400
>
>Actually in that case hypocritical would be the term, not cynical.  I
>hold those upscale hypocrites in the same light as all the others who
>want to take everything from everyone and give nothing to anyone.
>
> >>> "Offner, Patrick" <PatrickOffner at Centura.Org> 4/6/2007 1:33 PM >>>
>But those same upscale individuals DON'T want to pay for their routine
>and emergent medical care. In fact, many do not have insurance because
>they would rather have a BMW or a large flat screen TV. Yes--getting
>cynical.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
>[mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Gross
>Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 10:13 AM
>To: Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list
>Subject: RE: [ccm-l] Employment and benefits manipulations
>
>Lets be real here - how many of the indigent patients that receive free
>medical care pay for their root canals?  In fact, how many actually have
>any dental care at all?  None.  They go to the free clinics at the large
>city hospitals and get their free dental care (that we all pay for),
>while the dentists you talked about continue to serve their upscale
>suburban families 3-4 days a week and go to their country homes the
>other 3-4 days per week.  Same with the "cosmetic surgeons" or "sports
>medicine" ortho guys who do their jobs in nice self-owned and self-build
>private clinics and get paid cash by the dentist who blew out his knee
>and messed up his nose while skiing at Vail.
>
>Cynical, are we???
>
> >>> "Offner, Patrick" <PatrickOffner at Centura.Org> 4/6/2007 11:47 AM
> >>>
>Yes, but it was easier to justify providing some indigent care(say 10%)
>when reimbursement for non-indigent care was reasonable and
>appropriate.
>Now that we have to work 3-10 times as hard to earn the same income--in
>the face of inflation and rising malpractice fees--it seems harder to
>swallow the "forced" indigent care we have to provide. It seems that at
>least 50% of the trauma and emergency general surgery I see in the ED is
>uninsured. We still give them excellent care but it is getting harder to
>swallow.
>The dentists somehow seem to have gotten it right. They get 50-80%
>reimbursement on the billings and charge the patient for the rest. And
>the patients are willing to pay for the rest. Most dentists that I know
>only work 3-4 days per week, rarely take call and make a lot more money
>than I do. We on the other hand get about 30-40% of what we bill and are
>contractually prevented from balance billing the patient. Moreover, the
>patients now EXPECT to get their care for free. Why are they willing to
>pay for their root canal but not for their emergency appendectomy or
>their elective colon cancer resection?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
>[mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Gross
>Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 8:54 AM
>To: Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list
>Subject: RE: [ccm-l] Employment and benefits manipulations
>
>Tort reform, insurance company executive salaries, drug company "R&D"
>costs, etc - all part of the solution.
>Not part of the solution - a free lunch and an excuse for all of the
>"disenfranchised" whether their condition is self-imposed or "imposed by
>others" whoever those "others" might be......
>
> >>> "Offner, Patrick" <PatrickOffner at Centura.Org> 4/5/2007 6:46 PM >>>
>Dr. Mattox,
>
>While I agree with you almost 100%--don't you believe that insurance
>costs are also out of control--to the point that a lot of people just
>cannot afford them. Your "fix" is just the tip of the iceberg--we also
>need insurance reform as well as tort reform--it is all intertwined.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
>[mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of KMATTOX at aol.com
>
>Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 3:01 PM
>To: trauma-list at trauma.org
>Subject: Re: [ccm-l] Employment and benefits manipulations
>
>
>In a message dated 4/5/2007 3:48:23 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>thoran at sarah.
>br writes:
>
>Of the  30 -40 million US uninsured how many are the fast driving drug
>addicts, or  lazy, obese cigarette smokers whom you abhor and how many
>of them are ordinary  folks, the people who are apparently easy for you
>to dismiss
>, the
>working poor, in jobs that need filling but just donÌt get paid very
>well , certainly not enough to part with 1,200 a month...  maybe the
>receptionist or the cleaner or the guy in the parking garage, people who
>just  do NOT appear on your radar because they do NOT read a novel a
>week, do NOT  know the right people, do NOT belong to the right
>organizations, did NOT go to  the best schools. Never mind Dr. Crippens
>friend but what about the disabled,  the folks in the other car, the
>unemployed, the unemployable, good cannon  fo dder but No FREE LUNCH.
>Never mind that the free lunches are served up in  corporate board
>rooms every where, provided by the moms and pops investing in  the great
>enterprises that won't provide health  insurance.
>
>
>
>In every society, and especially at the local level, provisions are
>made  for
>the kind of persons you cite above.   Many local good examples  exist.
>
>
>These same individuals do not have state sponsored lawyer  aid, housing
>aid,
>church aid, food aid, family counseling, cell phones,  etc.   Why must
>or should
>health care be any different.    MANY MANY of the persons you cite
>above CHOOSE
>to not have health dollars  available in order to pay for cell phones,
>send money back to family in another  country, have a late model car,
>drink alcohol every day, go to cock fights, and  have somewhat expensive
>watches and designer
>glasses.   I see them  every day, and then they expect FREE medical
>care.
>WRONG.  One  cannot have it both ways.    If they go to church, the
>priest
>EXPECTS them to put something in the collection plate and even pay for
>some of their absolution by giving to the church (up to and greater than
>10% of their
>income).   If they need to go to court, they must pay for an
>attorney.
>
>
>I have NO problem for fairness with a prorated calculation of a
>discounted bill based on disability, inability to work (real, and not
>just a matter of a created social welfare state to pay someone NOT to
>work), and a feeling of responsibility for ones own services, whatever
>they might be.  It is not  the state or the employers responsibility to
>assure that everyone is provided  all creature comforts from the cradle
>to the grave.  That is a family and  an individual responsibility.  The
>governmental responsibility is to  protect, NOT
>PROVIDE.
>
>We in every society MUST also address the HUGE profits from insurance
>companies, HMOs, and hospitals whose overhead and payments to upper
>level
>management and stockholders are obscene.    The persons who have  been
>unfairly
>burdened with the financing of individual health care has become  the
>employer, and
>that is the most unfair of all  systems.
>
>Kenneth
>L. Mattox, MD
>Houston
>
>
>
>************************************** See what's free at
>http://www.aol.com.
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[ccm-l] Employment and benefits manipulations