List Archives

Sat Sep 23 13:29:16 BST 2006

 Ken and Pret,

 the other possible answer to this question is that the shooter had the gun tucked into his boot. some slim and agile people are able to slip their handcuffed arms under their legs (if they are cuffed behind...cannot imagine a seasoned officer cuffing someone in front) and therefore would be able to reach anything tucked into a boot. it WAS Texas, remember? they wear guns there all the time.

 regarding the accuracy (and having some shooting experience myself), i have to agree with Pret. the first one was well aimed and 'lucky' - the rest shot just for effect and found their mark. 

 my condolences to the family of that officer.

 Deb Montijo, RN, BSN
 St. Francis Medical Center
 Trauma ICU 
    "Primum non nocere"   
 -----Original Message-----
 From: trauma-list-request at trauma.org
 To: trauma-list at trauma.org
 Sent: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 4:00 AM
 Subject: trauma-list Digest, Vol 39, Issue 23

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    Today's Topics:

   1. RE: Lost List (Errington Thompson)
   2. Insurance Horror Stories (Rebecca Tucker)
   3. Re: Lost List (KMATTOX at aol.com)
   4. GSW HEAD, Neck, Chest (KMATTOX at aol.com)
   5. RE: GSW HEAD, Neck, Chest (Bjorn, Pret)
   6. Re: Insurance Horror Stories (Krin135 at aol.com)
   7. RE: GSW HEAD, Neck, Chest (Roy Danks)
   8. Re: GSW HEAD, Neck, Chest (KMATTOX at aol.com)
   9. Re: Lost List (Nappio at aol.com)
  10. Re: GSW HEAD, Neck, Chest (Joe Nold)
  11. Re: Lost List (Ronald Gross)
  12. Re: GSW HEAD, Neck, Chest (meredith mcbride)
  13. Re: GSW HEAD, Neck, Chest (Ronald Gross)
  14. RE: GSW HEAD, Neck, Chest (Ronald Gross)
  15. Re: Lost List (kmattox at aol.com)
  16. Re: Lost List (Ronald Gross)
  17. Re: Insurance Horror Stories (William Bromberg)
  18. Re: Lost List (kmattox at aol.com)
  19. RE: GSW HEAD, Neck, Chest (Roy Danks)
  20. Re: GSW HEAD, Neck, Chest (Forrest Robleto)
     Attached Message   From: errington at erringtonthompson.com 
  To: trauma-list at trauma.org 
  Subject: RE: Lost List 
  Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 5:33 AM 
     The AAST is next week.  I don't know of any conference going on this week. 

E

Errington C. Thompson, MD, FACS, FCCM
Trauma/Surgical Critical Care
Mission Hospital
Asheville, NC
Author - A Letter to America
www.whereistheoutrage.net

?
Everyone deserves to make an informed decision
??????????????????????????????? - Errington Thompson, MD

-----Original Message-----
From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org [mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org]
On Behalf Of Jago Miloguz
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 7:15 AM
To: Trauma &amp, Critical Care mailing list
Subject: Re: Lost List

l thought something about viruses or similar...ok so someone should start
some discussion, fresh one, l guess we all miss good discussions,
lurkers now is your chance to prove you can do more that just bystand...
ante

2006/11/22, Rebecca Tucker <rjtucker at peoplepc.com>:
>
> Oh, thanks. I was thinking something was wrong with my 'puter! Hope all is
> well with everyone and safe trips back for those who are attending the
> Congress. Wish I could be there too!
> Rebecca
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <tch at sun.ac.za>
> To: "Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list" <trauma-list at trauma.org>
> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 8:41 PM
> Subject: RE: Lost List
>
>
> Rebecca
>
> I suspect some of the main players are a congress or something - haven't
> heard from Ken M for a while now! Otherwise the clinical workload is just
> huge at the moment. I know we've had a rough period!
>
> Tim
> Dr T C Hardcastle
> M.B.,Ch.B.(Stell); M.Med(Chir); FCS(SA)
> Senior Surgeon / Senior Lecturer: Surgery (Trauma and ICU)
> ATLS  instructor and DSTC Cape Town Course Director
> Intern program Coordinator: Surgery
> M.Med (Emergency Medicine) Executive Committee member
> Clinical Head (Director): Diana Princess of Wales Trauma Unit
> Department of Surgery Room 4064
> Tygerberg Hospital / University of Stellenbosch
> PO Box 19063
> Tygerberg 7505
> Western Cape
> South Africa
> e-mail: tch at sun.ac.za
> Cell: +27824681615
> Office: +27219389281 or 4911 pager 0302
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
> [mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org]On Behalf Of Rebecca Tucker
> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 6:08 AM
> To: Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list
> Subject: Lost List
>
>
> Did the list go down, or something? I haven't heard from anyone for three
> or
> four days now....just checking...
> Rebecca
> --
> trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
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>
> --
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     Attached Message   From: rjtucker at peoplepc.com 
  To: trauma-list at trauma.org 
  Subject: Insurance Horror Stories 
  Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 5:36 AM 
     Wow. Very scary. 
 Although it's truly a catch 22, the last paragraph of this letter suggests that we adopt the system that is already failing in Canada and Europe. When I was working rotary-wing medical transport in Montana, 51% of our in-house patients were Canadians who couldn't get elective and even some necessary treatments on their own side of the border. Waiting lists for "elective" surgeries was so long (I was told 6 months by some) that people were ending up with greatly increased morbidity factors due to physical deterioration over the wait time. Although our system is flawed and insurance companies are getting fatter while the working person suffers, do we really want to roll over for another flawed system? Just as oil companies are now being scrutinized for their gluttony and profit margins, so should our insurance providers by scrutinized. However, although the concept of placing caps on profit margins goes against the core principles of capitalism, insurance profit should be visited. It never did set well with me that untrained, non-medical business people were making fat bucks on the backs of our nations sick and injured AND our healthcare professionals. The people who really should be making the profits for their investment in education and service should be the ones giving the service. Unfortunately, those who work for HMOs/PPOs/POSs/etc., have their incomes slashed to the bone for the Insurance Companies gains. I can't count the number of ER docs I've known over time who have ended up in bankruptcy due to the mess with HMO reimbursements. 
 Rebecca 
 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Smith" <rfsmithmd at comcast.net> 
 To: "'Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list'" <trauma-list at trauma.org> 
 Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 1:04 AM 
 Subject: RE:Insurance Horror Stories 

 > NYTimes. I know, I know, it's the most liberal newspaper in America. 
 > 
 > September 22, 2006 
 > Op-Ed Columnist 
 > Insurance Horror Stories 
 > By PAUL KRUGMAN 
 > "When Steve and Leslie Shaeffer's daughter, Selah, was diagnosed at age 4 
 > with a potentially fatal tumor in her jaw, they figured their health 
 > insurance would cover the bulk of her treatment costs." But "shortly after 
 > Selah's medical bills hit $20,000, Blue Cross stopped covering them and 
 > eventually canceled her coverage retroactively." 
 > 
 > So begins a recent report in The Los Angeles Times titled "Sick but > Insured? 
 > Think Again," which offers a series of similar horror stories, and > suggests 
 > that these stories represent a growing trend: more and more health > insurers 
 > are finding ways to yank your insurance when you get sick. 
 > 
 > This trend helps explain something that has been puzzling me: why is the 
 > health insurance industry growing rapidly, even as it covers fewer 
 > Americans? 
 > 
 > Between 2000 and 2005, the number of Americans with private health > insurance 
 > coverage fell by 1 percent. But over the same period, employment at health 
 > insurance companies rose a remarkable 32 percent. What are all those extra 
 > employees doing? 
 > 
 > Now we know at least part of the answer: they're working harder than ever > at 
 > identifying people who really need medical care, and ensuring that they 
 > don't get it. In the past, they mainly concentrated on screening out 
 > applicants likely to get sick. Now, it seems, they're also devoting a lot > of 
 > effort to finding pretexts for revoking insurance after they've already 
 > granted it. They typically do this by claiming that they weren't notified 
 > about some pre-existing condition, even if the insured wasn't aware of > that 
 > condition when he or she bought the policy. 
 > 
 > Welcome to the ugly world of American health care economics. 
 > 
 > Health care is poised to become America's largest industry. Employment in 
 > manufacturing, which once dominated the economy, has fallen 18 percent > since 
 > 2000, to 14.2 million. Meanwhile, employment in the private health > services 
 > industry has risen 16 percent, to 12.6 million. Another 1.3 million people 
 > are employed at government hospitals. So we're quickly approaching the > point 
 > at which more Americans will be employed delivering health care than are 
 > employed producing manufactured goods. 
 > 
 > Yet even as health care becomes the core of the American economy, our > system 
 > of paying for health care remains sick, and is getting sicker. 
 > 
 > Because everyone faces some risk of incurring huge medical costs, only the 
 > superrich can afford to be without health insurance. Yet private insurers 
 > try to refuse coverage to those most likely to need it, and deny payment 
 > whenever they can get away with it. 
 > 
 > The point isn't that they're evil or greedy (although you do wonder how > the 
 > people who cut off the Schaeffers can look themselves in the mirror). The 
 > fact is that cruelty and injustice are the inevitable result of the > current 
 > rules of the game. Blue Shield of California is a nonprofit insurance 
 > provider, yet as a spokesman put it, if his organization doesn't follow > the 
 > for-profit practice of selectively covering only the healthiest people, > "we 
 > will end up with all the high-risk people." 
 > 
 > Now, before you panic about the state of your own coverage, you should > know 
 > that the horror stories in The Los Angeles Times article all involve 
 > individual insurance; if your coverage comes via your employer, you're 
 > reasonably secure against sudden cancellation. 
 > 
 > But employment-based insurance is in rapid decline, as employers balk at > the 
 > cost and more and more companies adopt Wal-Mart-style minimal-benefit 
 > policies. That's why many people are turning to individual insurance - > only 
 > to find out, in some cases, that they didn't get what they thought they > paid 
 > for. 
 > 
 > And here's the thing: it's all unnecessary. 
 > 
 > Every other wealthy nation manages to provide almost all its citizens with 
 > guaranteed health insurance, while spending less on health care than we > do. 
 > And there's no mystery why: we're paying the price for pointless, 
 > destructive reliance on private insurers. Medicare, which is a universal 
 > health insurance program for older Americans, spends less than 2 cents of 
 > every dollar on administrative costs, leaving 98 cents to pay for medical 
 > care. By contrast, private insurance companies spend only around 80 cents > of 
 > each dollar in premiums on medical care; much of the remaining 20 cents is 
 > spent denying insurance to those who need it. 
 > 
 > If we had a universal system - Medicare for everyone - there would be no 
 > more horror stories like those reported by The Los Angeles Times. And we'd 
 > almost certainly spend less on health care than we do now. 
 > 
 > -- 
 > trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG 
 > To change your settings or unsubscribe visit: 
 > http://www.trauma.org/traumalist.html 

     Attached Message   From: KMATTOX at aol.com 
  To: trauma-list at trauma.org 
  Subject: Re: Lost List 
  Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 5:55 AM 
     1.    Trauma Course in Colorado Springs today and  tomorrow (Friday and 
Saturday)

2.    Parkland Hospital sponsoring a regional (National  ?) Disaster 
Conference in Dallas on Monday

3.    New Disaster Medical Group forming to improve  medical communications 
and information exchange meeting on Tuesday of next week  (before AAST) in New 
Orleans

4.    ACS Course on Disaster Planning and Response  to be given in New 
Orleans on Wednesday of next weed

5.    AAST meeting in New Orleans next week

6.    Texas Medical Association Fall meeting in  Austin beginning on Friday 
of next week.  

k 

     Attached Message   From: KMATTOX at aol.com 
  To: trauma-list at trauma.org 
  Subject: GSW HEAD, Neck, Chest 
  Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 6:05 AM 
     A decorated well respected Houston Police officer was killed in the line of  
duty last evening, just before dusk.   He was shot multiple times in  the 
head, neck, and chest.   Our prayers and condolences go out to the  immediate 
family and the extended family of police officers and officials and  friends in 
Houston.

Now the case and my question?

According to the TV and newspaper, this was a routine traffic stop, with  one 
police officer making the stop.   The pickup truck driver was  removed from 
his truck and handcuffed and placed in the back seat of the patrol  car.   
While the police officer was filling out paper work in the  front seat, at least 
4 
or more shots were fired from the victim in the back  seat, striking fatal 
injuries to the officer, who was DOA to the  BTGH.   

The female companion of the shooter ran from the scene, but apparently was  
later apprehended, but that is not part of my question.   A news  helicopter 
flying over head filmed the arrival of other police cars, the removal  of the 
shooter from the origional police car, where it is seen that he has on  
handcuffs.   A gun was found in the back seat of the origional police  car, no 
details 
are available as to what kind of gun, or whether or not all  bullets were 
missing from the gun or whether or not there were empty cartridges  in the back 
seat of the car.   This man has been charged with murder  this AM.  

NOW, the question.   How can a man with handcuffs on, behind his  back, get 
out a hidden gun, and fire it, accurately, striking a police officer  in the 
head, creating fatal wounds?

Have others on this list known of such actions, and just how can one twist  
around and fire a gun this way??

k

     Attached Message   From: pbjorn at emh.org 
  To: trauma-list at trauma.org 
  Subject: RE: GSW HEAD, Neck, Chest 
  Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 6:32 AM 
     -----Original Message-----
From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
[mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org] On Behalf Of KMATTOX at aol.com
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 9:06 AM
To: trauma-list at trauma.org
Subject: GSW HEAD, Neck, Chest

"...NOW, the question.   How can a man with handcuffs on, behind his
back, get out a hidden gun, and fire it, accurately, striking a police
officer  in the head, creating fatal wounds?..."

Ken,

The answer, of course, is with uncommon dexterity and no small amount of
luck.  If the gun was tucked in the rear waistband of the assailant's
trousers, then the trick becomes all the easier (and more pitiable: such
is an exceedingly common place to holster a handgun, which the arresting
officer -- presumably the victim -- should have searched more
carefully).

It's instructive too that multiple shots were fired.  The head shot
would have been one of many.  Just need to make sure the first round
finds center mass, then fire for effect.

I assume that the suspect never got himself out of the cruiser.  The
prosecutor should have an easy time of it.  Plea bargain or terminal
anesthesia, but insufficient comfort or justice either way.  

What a tragedy.

Pret Bjorn, RN
Bangor, ME USA 

     Attached Message   From: Krin135 at aol.com 
  To: trauma-list at trauma.org 
  Subject: Re: Insurance Horror Stories 
  Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 6:36 AM 

In a message dated 9/22/2006 4:05:36 AM Central Standard Time,  
rfsmithmd at comcast.net writes:

Medicare, which is a universal
health insurance program for older  Americans, spends less than 2 cents of
every dollar on administrative  costs, leaving 98 cents to pay for medical
care. By contrast, private  insurance companies spend only around 80 cents of
each dollar in premiums  on medical care; much of the remaining 20 cents is
spent denying insurance  to those who need it. 

This statement does not take into account the amount spent by providers and  
hospitals to cope with the paperwork demands of the Centers for  
Medicare/Medicaid Services...which 10 years ago amounted to over well over 10%  
of our 
office overhead...I doubt that the computerization of billing has  improved that 

any...

and I highly doubt the '2% claim for government overhead as well...

ck
Charles S. Krin, DO FAAFP

     Attached Message   From: roydanks at hotmail.com 
  To: trauma-list at trauma.org 
  Subject: RE: GSW HEAD, Neck, Chest 
  Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 6:36 AM 
     KM,

I was a police officer prior to going to medical school (where did I go 
wrong??!!):

How would you describe the body habitus of the alleged (I'll try to give him due 
course) shooter?

I have seen thin, long armed or very flexible cuffed prisoners bring their arms 
beneath their buttocks and around the ankles.  I've seen it more than 
once...and, yes, in the seated position.

As for the gun: well, obviously wasn't patted down well...huh?  Too bad.  That's 
a sad story.  Reinforces what we know: there is no such thing as a "routine" 
traffic stop.

RD
_________________________________________________________________
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     Attached Message   From: KMATTOX at aol.com 
  To: trauma-list at trauma.org 
  Subject: Re: GSW HEAD, Neck, Chest 
  Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 6:52 AM 

In a message dated 9/22/2006 8:37:46 A.M. Central Standard Time,  
roydanks at hotmail.com writes:

I have  seen thin, long armed or very flexible cuffed prisoners bring their 
arms  beneath their buttocks and around the ankles.  I've seen it more than  
once...and, yes, in the seated position.

The TV coverage showed the cuffs behind the back as he was removed  from the 
origional car.   Body habitus was  "average".

     Attached Message   From: Nappio at aol.com 
  To: trauma-list at trauma.org 
  Subject: Re: Lost List 
  Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 6:52 AM 
     I was quite bothered last year to find that the disaster management lecture  
had transformed into a Fee for Entrance post graduate course.  For us in  
private practice it already costs us thousands just to take a plane and get  a 
hotel.   Who can we lobby to again make this a formal portion of the  General 
Session?  ERF???    Dave  Nap     

     Attached Message   From: jnoldscarmaker at yahoo.com 
  To: trauma-list at trauma.org 
  Subject: Re: GSW HEAD, Neck, Chest 
  Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 7:41 AM 
     Did the shooter have any wounds himself.

  I don't think anyone in that situation would be above wounding himself in an 
attempt to escape.

---------------------------------
 All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

     Attached Message   From: Rgross at harthosp.org 
  To: trauma-list at trauma.org 
  Subject: Re: Lost List 
  Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 7:51 AM 
     OK, so when are you gonna do some work?   ;-)
Take care, Ken - we all need you around for a long time to
come.............
Ron

>>> <KMATTOX at aol.com> 9/22/2006 8:55 AM >>>
1.    Trauma Course in Colorado Springs today and  tomorrow (Friday and

Saturday)

2.    Parkland Hospital sponsoring a regional (National  ?) Disaster 
Conference in Dallas on Monday

3.    New Disaster Medical Group forming to improve  medical
communications 
and information exchange meeting on Tuesday of next week  (before AAST)
in New 
Orleans

4.    ACS Course on Disaster Planning and Response  to be given in New

Orleans on Wednesday of next weed

5.    AAST meeting in New Orleans next week

6.    Texas Medical Association Fall meeting in  Austin beginning on
Friday 
of next week.  

k 
--
trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
http://www.trauma.org/traumalist.html

     Attached Message   From: mmcbridemd at yahoo.com 
  To: trauma-list at trauma.org 
  Subject: Re: GSW HEAD, Neck, Chest 
  Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 7:57 AM 
     Don't forget the possibility that he simply was able to wrangle out one wrist 
from the cuffs. Magicians make a living this way.

KMATTOX at aol.com wrote:  
In a message dated 9/22/2006 8:37:46 A.M. Central Standard Time, 
roydanks at hotmail.com writes:

I have seen thin, long armed or very flexible cuffed prisoners bring their 
arms beneath their buttocks and around the ankles. I've seen it more than 
once...and, yes, in the seated position.

The TV coverage showed the cuffs behind the back as he was removed from the 
origional car. Body habitus was "average".
--
trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
http://www.trauma.org/traumalist.html

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 Everyone is raving about the  all-new Yahoo! Mail.

     Attached Message   From: Rgross at harthosp.org 
  To: trauma-list at trauma.org 
  Subject: Re: GSW HEAD, Neck, Chest 
  Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 9:20 AM 
     Ken, 

Sounds like pure dumb luck shooting on the part of the perp.  My
concern is about whether or not the officer failed to find a concealed
weapon - or worse, whether the perp somehow managed to get the officer's
service weapon and assassinate the officer with his own weapon.

My thoughts and prayers go out the officer and his family.

Ron

>>> <KMATTOX at aol.com> 9/22/2006 9:05 AM >>>
A decorated well respected Houston Police officer was killed in the
line of  
duty last evening, just before dusk.   He was shot multiple times in 
the 
head, neck, and chest.   Our prayers and condolences go out to the 
immediate 
family and the extended family of police officers and officials and 
friends in 
Houston.

Now the case and my question?

According to the TV and newspaper, this was a routine traffic stop,
with  one 
police officer making the stop.   The pickup truck driver was  removed
from 
his truck and handcuffed and placed in the back seat of the patrol 
car.   
While the police officer was filling out paper work in the  front seat,
at least 4 
or more shots were fired from the victim in the back  seat, striking
fatal 
injuries to the officer, who was DOA to the  BTGH.   

The female companion of the shooter ran from the scene, but apparently
was  
later apprehended, but that is not part of my question.   A news 
helicopter 
flying over head filmed the arrival of other police cars, the removal 
of the 
shooter from the origional police car, where it is seen that he has on 

handcuffs.   A gun was found in the back seat of the origional police 
car, no details 
are available as to what kind of gun, or whether or not all  bullets
were 
missing from the gun or whether or not there were empty cartridges  in
the back 
seat of the car.   This man has been charged with murder  this AM.  

NOW, the question.   How can a man with handcuffs on, behind his  back,
get 
out a hidden gun, and fire it, accurately, striking a police officer 
in the 
head, creating fatal wounds?

Have others on this list known of such actions, and just how can one
twist  
around and fire a gun this way??

k
--
trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
http://www.trauma.org/traumalist.html

     Attached Message   From: Rgross at harthosp.org 
  To: trauma-list at trauma.org 
  Subject: RE: GSW HEAD, Neck, Chest 
  Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 9:24 AM 
     So true, Roy.  And it also proves one more thing - bad guys are gonna
stay bad, no matter how many in the legal profession assert to the
contrary.

>>> "Roy Danks" <roydanks at hotmail.com> 9/22/2006 9:36 AM >>>
KM,

I was a police officer prior to going to medical school (where did I go
wrong??!!):

How would you describe the body habitus of the alleged (I'll try to
give him due course) shooter?

I have seen thin, long armed or very flexible cuffed prisoners bring
their arms beneath their buttocks and around the ankles.  I've seen it
more than once...and, yes, in the seated position.

As for the gun: well, obviously wasn't patted down well...huh?  Too
bad.  That's a sad story.  Reinforces what we know: there is no such
thing as a "routine" traffic stop.

RD
_________________________________________________________________
Search from any Web page with powerful protection. Get the FREE Windows
Live Toolbar Today!
http://get.live.com/toolbar/overview-- 
trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
http://www.trauma.org/traumalist.html

     Attached Message   From: kmattox at aol.com 
  To: trauma-list at trauma.org 
  Subject: Re: Lost List 
  Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 9:54 AM 
     I will see you in New Orleans.   I'm thinking for running for the US Senate.  
Sent via BlackBerry, return via KMattox at aol.com

-----Original Message-----
From: "Ronald Gross" <Rgross at harthosp.org>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:51:16 
To:<trauma-list at trauma.org>
Subject: Re: Lost List

OK, so when are you gonna do some work?   ;-)
Take care, Ken - we all need you around for a long time to
come.............
Ron

>>> <KMATTOX at aol.com> 9/22/2006 8:55 AM >>>
1.    Trauma Course in Colorado Springs today and  tomorrow (Friday and

Saturday)

2.    Parkland Hospital sponsoring a regional (National  ?) Disaster 
Conference in Dallas on Monday

3.    New Disaster Medical Group forming to improve  medical
communications 
and information exchange meeting on Tuesday of next week  (before AAST)
in New 
Orleans

4.    ACS Course on Disaster Planning and Response  to be given in New

Orleans on Wednesday of next weed

5.    AAST meeting in New Orleans next week

6.    Texas Medical Association Fall meeting in  Austin beginning on
Friday 
of next week.  

k 
--
trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
http://www.trauma.org/traumalist.html

--
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To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
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     Attached Message   From: Rgross at harthosp.org 
  To: trauma-list at trauma.org 
  Subject: Re: Lost List 
  Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 9:59 AM 
     I need to move to the great state of Texas so I can vote!!!!!
Will not be at the AAST - need to stay here and shovel coal so my
partners can present.  See you in Chicago?

Ron

>>> <kmattox at aol.com> 9/22/2006 12:54 PM >>>
I will see you in New Orleans.   I'm thinking for running for the US
Senate.  
Sent via BlackBerry, return via KMattox at aol.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: "Ronald Gross" <Rgross at harthosp.org>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:51:16 
To:<trauma-list at trauma.org>
Subject: Re: Lost List

OK, so when are you gonna do some work?   ;-)
Take care, Ken - we all need you around for a long time to
come.............
Ron

>>> <KMATTOX at aol.com> 9/22/2006 8:55 AM >>>
1.    Trauma Course in Colorado Springs today and  tomorrow (Friday
and

Saturday)

2.    Parkland Hospital sponsoring a regional (National  ?) Disaster 
Conference in Dallas on Monday

3.    New Disaster Medical Group forming to improve  medical
communications 
and information exchange meeting on Tuesday of next week  (before
AAST)
in New 
Orleans

4.    ACS Course on Disaster Planning and Response  to be given in New

Orleans on Wednesday of next weed

5.    AAST meeting in New Orleans next week

6.    Texas Medical Association Fall meeting in  Austin beginning on
Friday 
of next week.  

k 
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     Attached Message   From: brombwi1 at memorialhealth.com 
  To: trauma-list at trauma.org 
  Subject: Re: Insurance Horror Stories 
  Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:04 AM 
     If anyone on the list believes that:
"If we had a universal system - Medicare for everyone - there would be no
more horror stories like those reported by The Los Angeles Times. And we'd
almost certainly spend less on health care than we do now. "

I would refer you to an excellent British Doctor's website http://nhsblogdoc.blogspot.com/ 
at which he details his daily life and the functioning of the NHS. Frankly the 
bureaucracy, incompetence, and delay makes Blue Cross look like efficiency 
experts. On the plus side the British government raised doctors salaries quite a 
lot to buy into the system.

The way that medicare keeps overhead low is by 1) farming it out to private 
companies and 2) passing the buck to the hospitals and doctors. Of course to 
Krugman that's not a bug, it's a feature.

Bill Bromberg

William J. Bromberg
Savannah Surgical Group
912 350-7412

     Attached Message   From: kmattox at aol.com 
  To: trauma-list at trauma.org 
  Subject: Re: Lost List 
  Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:15 AM 
     Yes.   Acs.  
Sent via BlackBerry, return via KMattox at aol.com

-----Original Message-----
From: "Ronald Gross" <Rgross at harthosp.org>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:59:47 
To:"Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list" <trauma-list at trauma.org>
Subject: Re: Lost List

I need to move to the great state of Texas so I can vote!!!!!
Will not be at the AAST - need to stay here and shovel coal so my
partners can present.  See you in Chicago?

Ron

>>> <kmattox at aol.com> 9/22/2006 12:54 PM >>>
I will see you in New Orleans.   I'm thinking for running for the US
Senate.  
Sent via BlackBerry, return via KMattox at aol.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: "Ronald Gross" <Rgross at harthosp.org>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:51:16 
To:<trauma-list at trauma.org>
Subject: Re: Lost List

OK, so when are you gonna do some work?   ;-)
Take care, Ken - we all need you around for a long time to
come.............
Ron

>>> <KMATTOX at aol.com> 9/22/2006 8:55 AM >>>
1.    Trauma Course in Colorado Springs today and  tomorrow (Friday
and

Saturday)

2.    Parkland Hospital sponsoring a regional (National  ?) Disaster 
Conference in Dallas on Monday

3.    New Disaster Medical Group forming to improve  medical
communications 
and information exchange meeting on Tuesday of next week  (before
AAST)
in New 
Orleans

4.    ACS Course on Disaster Planning and Response  to be given in New

Orleans on Wednesday of next weed

5.    AAST meeting in New Orleans next week

6.    Texas Medical Association Fall meeting in  Austin beginning on
Friday 
of next week.  

k 
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     Attached Message   From: roydanks at hotmail.com 
  To: trauma-list at trauma.org 
  Subject: RE: GSW HEAD, Neck, Chest 
  Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:23 AM 
     If he got them in front, he could have gotten them back...PD might have 
re-cuffed him...maybe the fleeing girlfriend did the shooting...or another 
hitherto unknown individual?

RD
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces
http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us

     Attached Message   From: farcpr at gmail.com 
  To: trauma-list at trauma.org 
  Subject: Re: GSW HEAD, Neck, Chest 
  Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 11:47 AM 
     A friend and local retired Police Chief thinks that there are two likely 
 possibilities, One that he slipped his arms down under his legs or that he 
 merely turned and fired from behind hid back. 

 On 9/22/06, Roy Danks <roydanks at hotmail.com> wrote: 
 > 
 > If he got them in front, he could have gotten them back...PD might have 
 > re-cuffed him...maybe the fleeing girlfriend did the shooting...or another 
 > hitherto unknown individual? 
 > 
 > RD 
 > _________________________________________________________________ 
 > Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces 
 > http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us-- 
 > trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG 
 > To change your settings or unsubscribe visit: 
 > http://www.trauma.org/traumalist.html 
 > 

 -- V/R 

 Forrest Robleto 
 R House Health & Safety 
 www.RHouseTraining.com 
 FRobleto at RhouseTraining.com 
 609-792-9047 

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