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Fri Oct 13 22:44:02 BST 2006

Thanks Ron

Appreciated ;)
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ronald Gross" <Rgross at harthosp.org>
To: "Trauma & Critical Care mailing list" <trauma-list at trauma.org>
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 4:09 AM
Subject: Re: The ATLS evidence argument


> Karim,
> 
> I guess we really should have stopped yesterday.
> 
> Mike, please contact Irvene Hughes at the ACS ATLS office
> (ihughes at facs.org).  She has been with the ATLS program since its
> inception in 1980, and am certain that she will have all of the data
> that you wish to see re: the effectiveness of that course in improving
> patient care.  Then perhaps you could share that information with all
> who want to see the evidence (but only if you want to....), and either
> refute those with the "double standard" or publically admit that those
> "dogmatic beliefs" just might have been supported by statistics and a
> well-designed program that was, and continues to be scrutinized,
> analyzed, and redone by some pretty good educators over the last 26
> years.
> 
> No one has ever said that ATLS has provided us with the one and only
> correct way to take care of the trauma patient, and, as previously
> pointed out, the course text specifically states that.  What it does do
> is provide all who take it with a BASIC understanding of the disease we
> call trauma, and provides us with a guide as to how to approach the
> trauma patient when they present to your shop.  The course provides,
> simply speaking, a "common language" with some common goals of therapy
> that are common to all patients who are injured and need care.  Simple
> concept, simple goal, huge results.  (sorry for the opinionated
> conclusion at the end of that sentence.....I just couldn't resist!! :-)
> 
> Best to all,
> Ron
> 
> Gotta go for a while - actually gonna venture into the OR (if I can
> find it....)  WOW, what a great day!
> 
>>>> "Mike" <mmackinnon at cox.net> 10/12/2006 10:07 PM >>>
> To all
> 
> I have to admit im quite disappointed by the reaction to Dr Paul
> Bailey's query for evidence. Over the 7 years ive been apart of this
> list, Ive seen over and over many people "challenge" for evidence of a
> practitioners opinion or assumptions. Not only has this made me a better
> provider, but has caused me to become involved in research as well as
> publication. Evidence based medicine/practice is the goal we all strive
> for.
> 
> To see many of those who have traditionally challenged for evidence all
> of a sudden propagate dogmatic beliefs in response, is disheartening. It
> suggest that there is clearly a double standard which should not exist.
> Based on the discussions over the years, the general consensus is that
> there is nothing that "just makes sense" or is "self evident" in the
> realm of evidence based medicine. Odd to read those very things said now
> by those who have scorned others in the past.
> 
> Essentially. Prove it or don't do it, as Dr Mattox says.
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The ATLS evidence argument