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Mon Oct 9 09:50:54 BST 2006

Andrew,

Look at the CALS course offered in Minnesota. Team approach for rural
medicine.

Bill

On 10/8/06, Andrew J Bowman <sumieb at compuserve.com> wrote:
>
> I have taken BTLS/PHTLS for pre-hospital care.
>
> I have taken TNCC/TNATC & ATCN for nursing and transport.
>
> I have audited ATLS...twice.
>
> All good courses and all give very good information aimed at their target
> audiences.
>
> For the most part, trauma is trauma. certain mechanisms can expect to
> cause
> certain injuries and here is how you try to find them (history, physical,
> radiology, serial exams, labs, etc).
>
> What is different about them is what the student is taught to do with that
> information.
>
> BTLS/PHTLS = Airway, c-spine and transport to the nearest trauma center
> and
> maybe IV's enroute.
>
> TNCC and the other nursing aimed courses = Accept this patient from the
> field, help with the initial stabilization (limited interventional skills
> taught for the most part) and either get them to OR, special procedures,
> ICU
> or transfer.
>
> ATLS = What do you as the physician need to do to get this person
> stabilized, lots of interventional skills taught/practiced.
>
> I have said this before, many times on this list, that what I think is
> needed is a pan-trauma course. One that puts EMT's, medics, nurses and
> doctors together so that the "team" concept of trauma care is taught from
> the very beginning. Not separated into stovepipes of care with each
> practice
> level only answering to their ilk.
>
> Andrew Bowman
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gustavo E. Flores" <gflores911 at yahoo.com>
> To: "'Trauma &amp; Critical Care mailing list'" <trauma-list at trauma.org>
> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 7:36 PM
> Subject: RE: ATLS for non-docs..
>
>
> >
> > I am a third year medical student and a paramedic. I took ATLS last May
> and
> > was told that I could not take it as a medical student (not even audit
> it)
> > but I could audit it as a paramedic. Nonetheless, I asked to be
> evaluated
> > like everybody else, and I thank the staff for doing that.
> >
> > Regarding BTLS, I must say that it is oriented to prehospital personnel.
> > Both BTLS and ATLS are great courses and there is GREAT similitude
> between
> > them. That's the idea (that we all are on the same page)!!! The target
> > audience is the issue between BTLS and ATLS. Teaching an in-hospital
> > personnel how to work in a vehicle extrication or how to determine "load
> and
> > go" is a "nice-to-know" however they are likely not going to use it
> unless
> > you volunteer to work at a vehicle collision scene. Similarly, teaching
> a
> > paramedic how to rule-out a c-spine injury with radiological data is
> less
> > useful than stressing the fact of proper c-spine immobilization in
> patients
> > that require such (something that is done at the BTLS). They both give
> us
> a
> > broader sense of the picture but not necessarily will affect our
> day-to-day
> > activities. I think that ATLS does not teach anything useful to a
> > prehospital provider that BTLS / PHTLS does not already teach (at the
> > pertinent level) and BTLS does not teach anything that the ATLS does not
> > already teach (at their pertinent level).
> >
> > Got the money? Take all of them!! Compare, contrast, enhance your
> knowledge.
> > Taking ATLS gives a broader picture for non-physician participants, just
> as
> > taking the BTLS does for physicians. After all, "live as if you would
> die
> > tomorrow, but learn as if you would live forever"!
> >
> > Disclaimer: I am a BTLS instructor.
> >
> > I think that ATLS should have the "For Doctors" removed and broaden who
> else
> > can take the class. After all, regardless of what you learn in any
> class,
> > you are always bound by your local protocols (that is for non-physician
> > providers). This is similar to ACLS, where non-physicians learn some
> things
> > that may or may not be able to do depending on local protocols. Although
> I
> > knew it before taking the class, not being able to get properly
> "certified"
> > after indeed successfully approving the course made me feel a little
> > disappointed. I do look forward to take it again after I graduate
> (either
> > before or during my residency).
> >
> > Unfortunately, I do not have access to TEAMS in my medical school.
> >
> > Gustavo E. Flores Bauer, MSIII EMT-P :.
> > EmergencyTeam.Net
> > San Juan, Puerto Rico
> > Iberoamerican University School of Medicine
> > Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic
> >
> > Cel: 829-770-0707
> > Fax: 809-686-6988
> > MSN Messenger: gustavoflores911
> > Skype: gflores911
> > E-Mail: gustavo at emergencyteam.net
> > Web: www.emergencyteam.net
> >
> > The Serenity Prayer:
> > "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
> courage
> to
> > change the ones I can, and wisdom to know the difference."
> >
> > S:.F:.U:.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org
> [mailto:trauma-list-bounces at trauma.org]
> > On Behalf Of Jago Miloguz
> > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 6:21 PM
> > To: Trauma &amp, Critical Care mailing list
> > Subject: Re: ATLS for non-docs..
> >
> > 2006/10/9, Jago Miloguz <japrak at gmail.com>:
> > >
> > > does anyone knows can a med student attend ATLS, knowing of course
> that
> > > he/she will not be certified.
> > > ante
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
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> >
>
>
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>

-- 
Bill McLean, RN CEN

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