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Tue Aug 1 10:45:13 BST 2006

Good grief, what have I started... Guys it was a sarcastic dig at irrelevant diatribe.
I guess my Australian sense of humour is poorly understood across international borders...
Please delete!
MAST suits are only of use when correctly applied to political leaders with uncontrolled pulmonary hypertension!
Cheers
Paul Stewart
Paramedic
ASNSW 

-----Original Message-----
From: docrickfry at aol.com [mailto:docrickfry at aol.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 2:30 AM
To: trauma-list at trauma.org
Subject: Re: Cease fire NOW or pre hospital needle thoracotomy

I am still waiting for any data whatever to support these so authoritative allegations of benefit--in fact, it is very easy to deny the prehospital benefits of MAST trousers--they were shown in a major prospective study almost 20 years ago not only to have no benefit, but to be of harm in the preshospital setting.  It is amazing that such assertions continue to be spouted nonetheless.  No data exists that these bulky and dangerous garments have any benefit in tamponading bleeding any more effectively than direct manual pressure or pressure dressings.  Be careful of so blatantly ignoring the tenets of modern medicine by asserting anecdote and conjecture as proven fact.  You cannot support your statment with any data whatever. 
ERF

-----Original Message-----
From: medic541 at hotmail.com
To: trauma-list at trauma.org
Sent: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: Cease fire NOW or pre hospital needle thoracotomy

Fact, direct pressure is used in controlling blood loss we agree??? One excellent use for controlling open wound blood loss, is direct pressure . Directly, m.a.s.t trousers were probably not effective in raising pressure but decreased circulatory volume was a result from increasing the pressure in the bladders to the legs, and therefore the blood was shunted away from the lower extremity, and replaced any blood loss with a crystalloid solution. As far as an urban legend, no one can deny that they have benefits pre hospital but are certainly not the authority in controlling hypovolemia. 

>From: docrickfry at aol.com
>Reply-To: "Trauma & Critical Care mailing list" 
>><trauma-list at trauma.org>
>To: trauma-list at trauma.org
>Subject: Re: Cease fire NOW or prehospital needle thoracotomy
>Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 10:51:32 -0400
> 
>I disagree with this urban legend presented as some sort of authoritative >fact--please cite just ONE study showing any benefit whatever to MAST >trousers in Vietnam in improving casualty outcomes. I hope you realize >that simply raising a blood pressure reading in no way indicates that there >was any benefit whatever? 
>ERF
> 
> 
>-----Original Message-----
>From: farcpr at gmail.com
>To: trauma-list at trauma.org
>Sent: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 10:41 AM
>Subject: Re: Cease fire NOW or prehospital needle thoracotomy
> 
> 
>MAST trousers got pretty good results in Viet Nam with young otherwise 
>healthy men. When applied accross the general population they didn't 
>fare as well.
> 
>On 7/31/06, Anthony caruso <medic541 at hotmail.com> wrote: 
> > 
> > Paul, Im not sure what your asking about the Mast trousers comment. 
> > Is it two questions or are you trying to figure out how MAST 
> > trousers are used in combating Blodd loss? MAST trousers were 
> > removed from our units and throughout the state. They were excellent 
> > when used for immobilization >of femurs or pelvis FX and to 
> > tampanade bleeding, but there were no documented cases where 
> > auto-transfusion took place when inflated. However, that's not to 
> > say that i do not disagree with brining them back.
> > Needle thoracostmy is an advanced skill that is thought to all 
> > paramedics when attending school. However, unless the TPX causing 
> > pressure changes in the chest and pressing agents the heart then 
> > M.A.S.T trousers would be useless in this situation. Anyway Our 
> > state run office of Emergency Medical Services has there hands in 
> > too much of the paramedics daily activities. Hope you have more luck 
> > than we do Regards Anthony M. Caruso Paramedic/Town Of Natick Fire 
> > Department, Natick Massachusetts.
> > >From: "STEWART, Paul" <PStewart at ambulance.nsw.gov.au>
> > >Reply-To: "Trauma & Critical Care mailing list" 
> > ><trauma-list at trauma.org>
> > >To: "Trauma & Critical Care mailing list" <trauma-list at trauma.org>
> > >Subject: RE: Cease fire NOW or prehospital needle thoracotomy
> > >Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 17:23:12 +1000
> > > 
> > > Do the Israeli military permit prehospital needle thoracotomies 
> > >and if so, what do the arab states think about bringing back the 
> > >MAST suit to combat this?
> > >Perhaps we could ask the political leaders to provide us with an 
> > >>informed comment.....
> > >My delete button needs replacing. 
> > > 
> > >Regards
> > >Paul Stewart
> > >Paramedic
> > >ASNSW
> > > 
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Ronald Gross [mailto:Rgross at harthosp.org]
> > >Sent: Monday, 31 July 2006 3:53 AM
> > >To: Trauma & Critical Care mailing list
> > >Subject: RE: Cease fire NOW
> > > 
> > >Eric,
> > > 
> > >Seems that Tom has taken the Pulitzer Prize that Rob referred to - 
> > >this
> > one
> > >is for revisionist history........ 
> > > 
> > >Take care,
> > >Ron
> > > 
> > > >>> "Thomas Anthony Horan" <thoran at sarah.br> 7/30/2006 12:54 PM 
> > > >>> >>>
> > >Dear Erick,
> > > 
> > >What is it that you don't understand? Every nation has a right to 
> > >self defense. In this case 2 soldiers were captured and a war broke 
> > >out. Why
> > now
> > >why this incident? Who knows? 
> > > 
> > >BUT, there is no one on this list who doesn't want to see Israel 
> > >and Palestine living in peace. Although we are moved by the horrors 
> > >of war
> > on
> > >all sides, this is something a lot more dangerous than the usual 
> > >arab israeli conflict. Israeli military dominance is being broken 
> > >and a >cease fire won't save it. Olmerts colossal miscalculation 
> > >has united the terrorists, reinvigorated Syrian influence in 
> > >lebanon, a radical Shia >is the hero of the islamic world, Iran has 
> > >the US ocupied in Lebanon, and
> > it
> > >has silenced moderates in Egypt Jordan and Saudi Arabia. Is israel 
> > >>safer today than 2 weeks ago, despite the killing many innocents 
> > >and a few terrorists?
> > > 
> > >IE It is an unmitigated disaster. 
> > > 
> > >An eye for an eye just dosnÂ´t work, in this particular case it is 
> > >two captured soldiers for a destroyed country.
> > > 
> > >Tom
> > > 
> > > > ----------
> > > > From: docrickfry at aol.com[SMTP:docrickfry at aol.com]
> > > > Reply To: Trauma & Critical Care mailing list
> > > > Sent: domingo, 30 de julho de 2006 12:36
> > > > To: trauma-list at trauma.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Cease fire NOW
> > > > 
> > > > I wonder what you would think, or what we would be advocating, 
> > > > if >our
> > >third largest city, Chicago, were being indiscriminately fired 
> > >upon, unprovoked, by a splinter group over the border in Canada, as 
> > >Haifa is >in Israel as their third largest city, with innocent 
> > >American citizens >daily being killed, the Chicago train station 
> > >destroyed, and the rest of the world began blaming us for trying to 
> > >take out those rockets across the border that the Canadian 
> > >government could do nothing about, and calling
> > for
> > >US to cease fire with no comment about the group continuing to fire 
> > >>upon us. Think about whether you would be saying the same thing 
> > >(call me
> > naive,
> > >but I really don't think so...)--to understand another you must 
> > >first >be able to walk a mile in their shoes. If you can honestly 
> > >say that you
> > would
> > >still be calling on US, unilaterally to stop defending ourselves, 
> > >then >at least you are consistent, tho I would question your 
> > >sanity.. I await >the first post somehow telling me that this
> > > > is different.......???? 
> > > > ERF
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: p.bjorn at netzero.net
> > > > To: trauma-list at trauma.org
> > > > Sent: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 7:19 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: Cease fire NOW
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > With sincere respect, I'd challenge you to objectively itemize 
> > > > the accomplishments of the Israeli military over the past couple 
> > > > of >weeks, or for that matter the Coalition of the Willing's 
> > > > over the past few
> > >years. 
> > > > 
> > > > You're insisting that a cease-fire would be stupid; but it's 
> > > > increasingly clear that our fire-for-effect mentality hasn't 
> > > > done >much for the future of humanity either.
> > > > 
> > > > Civilization hasn't much of a chance until the "good guys" 
> > > > remember how to act civilized. We're allowing ourselves to be 
> > > > drawn in the other direction -- and if you ask my opinion, it's 
> > > > been entirely too
> > >easy to do. 
> > > > Who would have thought in the fall of 2001 that it might ever 
> > > > become difficult to distinguish who the good guys are?
> > > > 
> > > > Pret Bjorn
> > > > Bangor, ME USA
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Ronald Gross" <Rgross at harthosp.org>
> > > > To: "Trauma & Critical Care mailing list" 
> > > > <trauma-list at trauma.org>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 12:31 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Cease fire NOW
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Ron also said that the only thing a cease fire now would 
> > > > accomplish >is to make all of the world happy that they did 
> > > > something, while the >bad guys have just that much more time 
> > > > re-arming and preparing for their
> > >next attacks. 
> > > > Cease fires do absolutely nothing unless there is a 
> > > > pre-determined plan that all know both sides will accept. We 
> > > > know this because we have seen history repeat itself for as long as it has been recorded.
> > > > Ron
> > > > 
> > > > >>> ******** ******** <geokgeo at otenet.gr> 7/30/2006 6:22 AM >>>>
> > > > Dear listers,
> > > > I think this is a trauma forum and not a political arena. 
> > > > Is like going to a Trauma Congress and instead of listening 
> > > > Trauma topics we are hearing the speakers doing political analysis.
> > > > 
> > > > George C. Georgiou
> > > > Gen.Surgeon
> > > > Xanthi Gen.Hospital
> > > > Greece
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > P.S. And while we are speaking our views freely -as Ron 
> > > > >said-innocent people are killed in Lebanon and Israel and 
> > > > 700.000 refugees are suffering in Lebanon.
> > > > ... at least I would rather expect someone of you saying ,Cease 
> > > > fire
> > >NOW. 
> > > > 
> > > > G. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --
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> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
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> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
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> 
>-- V/R 
> 
>Forrest Robleto 
>R House Health & Safety 
>www.RHouseTraining.com 
>FRobleto at RhouseTraining.com 
>609-792-9047 
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Cease fire NOW or pre hospital needle thoracotomy