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Mon Apr 10 11:02:24 BST 2006

KMATTOX at aol.com wrote:     I would be happy to review such a case, if and when such a case is produced and it falls into the data that you cite. Quite honestly, I have not seen 
or heard of such a case in military or civilian practice in the past several 
decades. I HAVE seen a significant number of IATROGENIC (and even FATAL) 
complications caused by such insertion if needles and tubes in the ambulance, helicopter, 

  and non trauma center personnel. 

k

Non trauma Center personnel ! ! !  ? ? ?

  W O W
Your becoming more specific in your discrimination

  Either way

  ... it's too rigid !

  Too Rigid = "/%$*&%/

  Let's just credentialize thoroughly/intelligently and see where it takes us
  They are some amazing GPs out their that need to be recognized
  And then their are the other ones
  That we must decide if we should barr them form doing certain acts 
  Or train them up and recertify and QA/QC them regularly
  ... and also let's do the same for the Medics

  And let's introduce time & space constraints in the equation
  The GP or the Medic in your trauma center is their to observe or train
  Back in the regional hosp. or in the boonies
  ... that would be some thing else.
  An opportunity to introduce intelligence
  NOT rigidity "non trauma center personnel" )))))))))))))))))))

  Exemple :  (Leaving trauma, doctors and Medics for a peacefull instant)
  Dx/Pt driven protocols
  V-Fib : Check pulse, Check monitor, 1 min CPR if not witnessed, 3 D-Fibs
  IF no MD present within 1 min, credentialised RN Defibrillates...
  Etc. etc.

  If anything
  Recognize the intelligence
  Especially compared to the more patchwork approach
  Death & gravity defining structure actual present in (too)many places still
  And I am obviously not referring to the allowed halls of university medical centers
  I am talking about the rest of the world

  To end

  I have to apologize
  The worst mistake in a discussion is making it personnel
  And this is what I have done by questioning the quality of care of MD

  I would be shooting myself in the Doctor's foot if I did ))))

  But what some perceive as a chip on some people's shoulder

  Is merely my attempt to point out the chip in some people's eyes

  I think the effort honest ))))

  Charles

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Clamp the the chest tube in an EMS placed chest tube