AED

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Actually I've never been involved with St John's excepting where I have 
backed them up as an Ambulance Officer or Paramedic. I don't think the 
decision making pathway involved in deciding whether or not to start CPR and 
or attach an AED is so complex that a 13 or 14 year old couldn't do it (As 
far as I'm aware, 1st aiders in this age group are not left unsupervised 
anyway). I regularly teach 6 year olds how recognise an emergency call 000 
(Aussie 911,999 etc..) and roll an adult of my size into the lateral 
position and gently tip the head back. As I may have said elsewhere it's not 
rocket science - and its probably not trauma related either - I can feel 
this topic getting shut down sooner rather than later
Cheers all
Simon Houstoun
Paramedic QAS Toowoomba
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matt & Lesley" <mmccabe at optusnet.com.au>
To: <trauma-list at trauma.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: AED


Simon,

Do I feel that there is a past or current member of St. Johns.

For the information of everyone every first aid post had a AED on it and was
proven to be reliable when we had 5 cardiac cases within the spate of an
hour.

 I have no problem with what you have said , but can you tell me how a young
13 - 14 year old can make the necessary lifesaving decisions in a cardiac
situation.



-------Original Message-------

From: Trauma & Critical Care mailing list
Date: 11/02/04 17:11:42
To: Trauma & Critical Care mailing list
Subject: Re: AED

It's true that not all St Johns people are qualified to defib etc, but those
that do, do a really good job that could not be done any more cheaply or
effectively, which was my point - You need to be 'Johnny on the spot' (no
pun intended) to achieve anything as the sad story from Claudia so
appropriately shows - providing coverage at a major sporting event is not
rocket science and is not even expensive when you compare it with Public
Liability insurance and when you compare it to the cost of a sudden death in
the community (is it about $200K AUS?) it really makes sense. What will be
even better is when you can have a safe AED in the home, that cannot be used
as a weapon, and can be used successfully by the relatively untrained on
close family members (a hard thing to do for anyone) - then we will really
see improved survival as the Melbourne Cricket Ground experience shows -
obvioulsy the organisers of the RMS like living on the edge - the actual
requirement is published on the ARC website I think, and it will only take
one law suit to make the so-called 'savings' in not providing advanced first
aid coverage (by whatever provider) seem ludicrous

Cheers
Simon
Paramedic QAS Toowoomba
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt & Lesley" <mmccabe at optusnet.com.au>
To: <trauma-list at trauma.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: AED


Simon,

further to your email it should be noted that not all St. John's have AED
qualifications. It should also be noted that a large percentage of the
members are cadets and do not have the knowledge.

Another similar situation is at the Royal Melbourne Show. At every day they
had a "DEFIB", team which handled the entire showgrounds with just 8 people.
It was proven that 8 people could not handle 30,000 people.

We also now have Red Cross First Aid here that have members that are all
defib and oxy trained. They seem to be more reliable than the other
organisation.

-------Original Message-------

From: Trauma & Critical Care mailing list
Date: 10/30/04 22:56:43
To: Trauma & Critical Care mailing list
Subject: Re: AED

In Australia, the standard for sporting events is to have 1 advanced first
aid person per thousand spectators, and each stand at a venue with a major
sporting event has, at the very least, an AED in situ with these trained
people standing by. I'm very glad that they do, they get ROSC and survival
to discharge of around 66% at the Melbourne Cricket Ground as compared with
seveteen percent for us amblance jockeys with our ACLS and whiz-bang Lifepak
12's- This would not happen if the patients had to wait five or ten minutes
for me in my ambulance from the station - The St John's Ambulance who make
this possible are all volunteers and therefore cheap to employ and very
effective in their role - perhaps it is a model that more places overseas
should follow if they do not do so already.

Simon Houstoun
Paramedic QAS Toowoomba

----- Original Message -----
From: "Claudia Teles" <cvteles at globo.com>
To: "Trauma & Critical Care mailing list" <trauma-list at trauma.org>;
<trauma-list at trauma.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 8:32 AM
Subject: RE: AED


Joe,
I?d rather be shocked too if I undergo VF...but since they started CPR,
could they do it in a fashion different than a shiatsu practitioner does?
they did chiropractics on the patient and interrupted it to take him to
the ambulance...that?s ridiculous.TV showed it for 200 million brazilians
to see ...
Second, since there was an ambulance in the stadium, could it be opened?
and preferrably with a responsible driver inside it?
If you add this to the fact the player felt ill at a previous game, and
was diagnosed with an "arrhythmia" at a previous check up, you come to only
one conclusion: amateurism is doing no good to us here.
This episode got me really pissed off...

claudia
  '>'-- Mensagem Original --
  '>'Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:02:07 -0400
  '>'From: joe.nemeth at staff.mcgill.ca
  '>'To: trauma-list at trauma.org
  '>'Subject: AED
  '>'Reply-To: Trauma & Critical Care mailing list <trauma-list at trauma.org>
  '>'
  '>'
  '>'ET said....
  '>'
  '>'AED's are not the be all and end all of cardiac resuscitation.  There
  '>'should have been an ambulance at the stadium like there is for every
major
  '>'sporting event in the US.
  '>'
  '>'E
  '>'
  '>'Errington C. Thompson, MD
  '>'Author - A Letter to America
  '>'www.erringtonthompsonmd.com
  '>'ecthompson at tyler.net
  '>'
  '>'Nemeth replied...
  '>'
  '>'Errington,
  '>'
  '>'I would beg to differ...in fact early defib is one of the few useful
things
  '>'(the
  '>'only useful thing?) in ACLS...forget about the drugs...if I am in VF
shock
  '>'me
  '>'early...period....
  '>'
  '>'Nemeth
  '>'McGill
  '>'Montreal
  '>'--
  '>'trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
  '>'To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
  '>'http://www.trauma.org/traumalist.html




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