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Substantial web site access rise - why?

Bjorn, Pret trauma-list@trauma.org
Tue, 11 Mar 2003 12:39:46 -0500 

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Re: Self-loathing

Why is it that an American who exercises the freedom (responsibility?) to
question the actions of his government is somehow self-loathing or
anti-American?

Re: Thoroughly everything else in Terry's message

Oh.  My.  God.

Pret

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Dinerman [mailto:dinerman@computron.net]
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 9:27 AM
To: trauma-list@trauma.org
Subject: Re: Substantial web site access rise - why?


Even at risk of enraging my colleagues here on the list, and in the face of
all the American self-loathing, I must still hold to my position that this
action is timely, in our national interest and that if fail to capitalize on
this opportunity to remake the mideast the way the Marshall Plan remade
Europe and the Far East we will regret it for the next 100 years and pay for
inaction in even more blood on home soil.
 
It is long past time to carry the terror back to the terrorists.
 
T.A. Dinerman EMTP

----- Original Message ----- 
From: p.bjorn <mailto:p.bjorn@netzero.net>  
To: trauma-list@trauma.org <mailto:trauma-list@trauma.org>  
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: Substantial web site access rise - why?

Of course not.  Neither should we methodically explore or invent rationale
to declare war on anyone we decide needs a spanking.  
 
It may ultimately be in the United States best interests to figure out how
to admit when we're wrong.
 
 
----- Original Message ----- 

From: SJASMD@aol.com <mailto:SJASMD@aol.com>  
To: trauma-list@trauma.org <mailto:trauma-list@trauma.org>  
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 2:55 AM
Subject: Re: Substantial web site access rise - why?

In a message dated 3/10/2003 4:17:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
pbjorn@emh.org <mailto:pbjorn@emh.org>  writes:



Subj: RE: Substantial web site access rise - why? 
Date: 3/10/2003 4:17:45 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: pbjorn@emh.org <mailto:pbjorn@emh.org> 
Reply-to: trauma-list@trauma.org <mailto:trauma-list@trauma.org> 
To: trauma-list@trauma.org <mailto:trauma-list@trauma.org> 
Sent from the Internet 



Scott:
  
Ah yes, the Stark incident.  One's wrath is, of course, aimed at the French!


But wait--that was 1987, wasn't it?  

See, the thing is, Saddam was our boy back then.  Cap Weinberger himself
declared the attack a horrible mistake, and the Iraqis expressed their deep
regret; they agreed to financial compensation for the families, and to pay
for reparations to the vessel.  

We were so cozy with Saddam, it seems, that while all of this was going on,
US companies were authorized to sell him seven engineered strains of
Bacillus anthracis (along with Clostridium botulinum, Histoplasma
capsulatam, Brucella melitensis, Clostridium perfringens, and Clostridium
tetani).  We were also providing satellite intel on the location of all
those sneaky Kurdish savages, and steadfastly defending his brutal domestic
indiscretions before the UN.
  
None of this is particularly surprising, given the circumstances: the Stark
was in the gulf mostly because of concern that Iran might gain control of
the region.  Not long before the ship was attacked, Iran had deployed a
bunch of Sidewinders within reach of the Strait of Hormuz. 
  
Wanna guess who sold Sidewinder missiles to Iran?  

Bingo.

In fact, although there's no need to go into detail in this forum, I think
you'll find that the entire Middle East--Iraq included--is full to
overflowing with American arms, conventional and otherwise.  We're the
planet's military SuperStore, with better than 80% of sales going to
non-democratic governments--many of those within a Scud-throw of Iraq.  Let
freedom cha-ching.  

Consider carefully that a majority of the most hideous weaponry currently
accessible to terrorist organizations and totalitarian regimes was designed
and/or constructed and/or and sold at a handsome profit by Americans.  Then
ask yourself just how and when France earned the title of Bad Guy.  

History's so much easier to interpret if you dispense with the facts and the
context.
  
Pret




PRET
should we declare war on us 


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<DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=590582617-11032003>Re: 
Self-loathing</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=590582617-11032003>Why is it that an American who exercises the freedom 
  (responsibility?) to question the actions of his government is somehow 
  self-loathing or anti-American?</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=590582617-11032003>Re: 
Thor</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=590582617-11032003>oughly everything else in Terry's 
message</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=590582617-11032003>Oh.&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=#800000 
  face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=590582617-11032003>My.&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT><FONT 
  color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=590582617-11032003>God.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=590582617-11032003>Pret</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Terry Dinerman 
  [mailto:dinerman@computron.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 11, 2003 9:27 
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> trauma-list@trauma.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Substantial web 
  site access rise - why?<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Even at risk of enraging my colleagues here on 
  the list, and in the face of all the American self-loathing, I must still hold 
  to my position that this action is timely, in our national interest and 
  that&nbsp;if fail to capitalize on this opportunity to remake the mideast the 
  way the Marshall Plan remade Europe and the Far East we will regret it for the 
  next 100 years and pay for inaction in even more blood on home 
  soil.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">It is long&nbsp;past time to&nbsp;carry the 
  terror back to the terrorists.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">T.A. Dinerman EMTP</FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
  style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV 
    style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> 
    <A href="mailto:p.bjorn@netzero.net" title=p.bjorn@netzero.net>p.bjorn</A> 
    </DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A 
    href="mailto:trauma-list@trauma.org" 
    title=trauma-list@trauma.org>trauma-list@trauma.org</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 10, 2003 10:08 
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Substantial web site 
    access rise - why?</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2>Of course not.&nbsp; Neither 
    should we methodically explore or invent rationale to declare war on anyone 
    we decide needs a spanking.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2>It may ultimately be in the 
    United States best interests to figure out how to admit when we're 
    wrong.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE 
    style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV 
      style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> 
      <A href="mailto:SJASMD@aol.com" title=SJASMD@aol.com>SJASMD@aol.com</A> 
      </DIV>
      <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A 
      href="mailto:trauma-list@trauma.org" 
      title=trauma-list@trauma.org>trauma-list@trauma.org</A> </DIV>
      <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 11, 2003 2:55 
      AM</DIV>
      <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Substantial web site 
      access rise - why?</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT face=Arial lang=0 size=2 
      FAMILY="SANSSERIF">In a message dated 3/10/2003 4:17:45 PM Eastern 
      Standard Time, <A href="mailto:pbjorn@emh.org">pbjorn@emh.org</A> 
      writes:<BR><BR>
      <BLOCKQUOTE 
      style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px" 
      TYPE="CITE">Subj: <B>RE: Substantial web site access rise - why? 
        </B><BR>Date: 3/10/2003 4:17:45 PM Eastern Standard Time<BR>From: <A 
        href="mailto:pbjorn@emh.org">pbjorn@emh.org</A><BR>Reply-to: <A 
        href="mailto:trauma-list@trauma.org">trauma-list@trauma.org</A><BR>To: 
        <A 
        href="mailto:trauma-list@trauma.org">trauma-list@trauma.org</A><BR><I>Sent 
        from the Internet </I><BR><BR><BR><BR></FONT><FONT color=#800000 
        face=Arial lang=0 size=2 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" 
        FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Scott:</FONT><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial lang=0 
        size=3 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>&nbsp; 
        <BR></FONT><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial lang=0 size=2 
        style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Ah yes, the Stark 
        incident.&nbsp; One's wrath is, of course, aimed at the French!&nbsp; 
        </FONT><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial lang=0 size=3 
        style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" 
        FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR><BR></FONT><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial lang=0 
        size=2 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" FAMILY="SANSSERIF">But 
        wait--that was 1987, wasn't it?&nbsp; </FONT><FONT color=#000000 
        face=Arial lang=0 size=3 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" 
        FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR><BR></FONT><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial lang=0 
        size=2 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" FAMILY="SANSSERIF">See, the 
        thing is, Saddam was our boy back then.&nbsp; Cap Weinberger himself 
        declared the attack a horrible mistake, and the Iraqis expressed their 
        deep regret; they agreed to financial compensation for the families, and 
        to pay for reparations to the vessel.&nbsp; </FONT><FONT color=#000000 
        face=Arial lang=0 size=3 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" 
        FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR><BR></FONT><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial lang=0 
        size=2 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" FAMILY="SANSSERIF">We were so 
        cozy with Saddam, it seems, that while all of this was going on, US 
        companies were authorized to sell him seven engineered strains of 
        Bacillus anthracis (along with Clostridium botulinum, Histoplasma 
        capsulatam, Brucella melitensis, Clostridium perfringens, and 
        Clostridium tetani).&nbsp; We were also providing satellite intel on the 
        location of all those sneaky Kurdish savages, and steadfastly defending 
        his brutal domestic indiscretions before the UN.</FONT><FONT 
        color=#000000 face=Arial lang=0 size=3 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" 
        FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>&nbsp; <BR></FONT><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial 
        lang=0 size=2 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" FAMILY="SANSSERIF">None 
        of this is particularly surprising, given the circumstances: the Stark 
        was in the gulf mostly because of concern that Iran might gain control 
        of the region.&nbsp; Not long before the ship was attacked, Iran had 
        deployed a bunch of Sidewinders within reach of the Strait of Hormuz. 
        </FONT><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial lang=0 size=3 
        style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>&nbsp; 
        <BR></FONT><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial lang=0 size=2 
        style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Wanna guess who 
        sold Sidewinder missiles to Iran?&nbsp; </FONT><FONT color=#000000 
        face=Arial lang=0 size=3 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" 
        FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR><BR></FONT><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial lang=0 
        size=2 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" 
        FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Bingo.</FONT><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial lang=0 
        size=3 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" 
        FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR><BR></FONT><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial lang=0 
        size=2 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" FAMILY="SANSSERIF">In fact, 
        although there's no need to go into detail in this forum, I think you'll 
        find that the entire Middle East--Iraq included--is full to overflowing 
        with American arms, conventional and otherwise.&nbsp; We're the planet's 
        military SuperStore, with better than 80% of sales going to 
        non-democratic governments--many of those within a Scud-throw of 
        Iraq.&nbsp; Let freedom cha-ching.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Consider carefully that 
        a majority of the most hideous weaponry currently accessible to 
        terrorist organizations and totalitarian regimes was designed and/or 
        constructed and/or and sold at a handsome profit by Americans.&nbsp; 
        Then ask yourself just how and when France earned the title of Bad 
        Guy.&nbsp; <BR><BR>History's so much easier to interpret if you dispense 
        with the facts and the context.<BR>&nbsp; 
      <BR>Pret<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial lang=0 
      size=2 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" 
      FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>PRET<BR>should we declare war on us</FONT> 
    </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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