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AVPU trivia
Bjorn, Pret trauma-list@trauma.orgWed, 20 Feb 2002 07:35:15 -0500
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This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1BA0B.0C37E1C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Karim, =20 I agree with your sentiments. But they don't answer my question. =20 Where did AVPU come from? =20 I'm interested because I too think it's a sloppy, unscientific, = meaningless method of assessment. Nonetheless, it's taught as a primary survey component in PHTLS, TNCC, and ATLS. =20 =20 I'm alarmed at this consensus endorsement of a behavior which has = little if any scientific basis, and I spend a good deal of otherwise perfectly = useful time UN-teaching it to my friends and colleagues who actually work = among acutely injured patients. Rather than simply spray around my opinion, however, I'd like to assemble a small fund of knowledge on the topic. = Such would include AVPU's history and origins. I'm finding them elusive. Probably says much about the subject. =20 Thanks anyhow. =20 Pret -----Original Message----- From: Karim Brohi [mailto:karim@trauma.org] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 6:33 PM To: trauma-list@trauma.org Subject: RE: AVPU trivia I thought AVPU had died and gone to heaven. =20 It was murdered in its sleep by the more robust and powerful Glasgow = Coma Scale. =20 AVPU is essentially a bastardised GCS - and the weakest components of = it. If you wanted to trim the GCS (and why would you - it only takes 5 = seconds) you'd limit it to Best Motor Response (in the upper limb) =20 AVPU is dead and gone. Let it rest in peace. =20 Karim =20 PS. The Glasgow Coma Scale is so powerful it's even, apparently, used = in Edinburgh =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: trauma-list-admin@trauma.org = [mailto:trauma-list-admin@trauma.org]On Behalf Of Rosann Juska Sent: 19 February 2002 07:27 To: trauma-list@trauma.org Subject: Re: AVPU trivia A-Alert V-responds to Verbal P- responds to Pain U-unresponsive =B8..=B7 =B4=A8=A8)) -:=A6:- =B8.=B7=B4 .=B7=B4=A8=A8)) ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4 ..=B7=B4 -:=A6:-=20 -:=A6:- ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4* =20 Rosann Juska ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bjorn, Pret <mailto:pbjorn@emh.org> =20 To: Trauma-List (E-mail) <mailto:trauma-list@trauma.org> =20 Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 1:02 PM Subject: AVPU trivia An oxymoron, I know... =20 But does anyone know the origins of the AVPU mnemonic? Who originally recommended it? And where might I find even one evidence-based = endorsement? I've been looking all day, suspect I know the answers, but I always = test my assumptions against the wisdom of the List. =20 Thanks in Advance. =20 Pret Bjorn Trauma Coordinator EMMC Trauma Program 489 State Street Bangor, ME 04401 =20 207.973.7260 (office) 207.973.7673 (fax) 207.941.5085 (voice pager) =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1BA0B.0C37E1C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=200291812-20022002>Karim,</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=200291812-20022002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=200291812-20022002>I agree with your sentiments. But they don't answer my question.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=200291812-20022002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=200291812-20022002><EM>Where did AVPU come from</EM>?</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=200291812-20022002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=200291812-20022002>I'm interested because I too think it's a sloppy, unscientific, meaningless method of assessment.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=200291812-20022002> Nonetheless, it's </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=200291812-20022002>taught as a primary survey component in PHTLS, TNCC, and ATLS. </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=200291812-20022002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=200291812-20022002>I'm alarmed at this consensus endorsement of a behavior which has little if any scientific basis, and I spend a good deal of otherwise perfectly useful time UN-teaching it to my friends and colleagues who actually work among acutely injured patients. Rather than simply spray around my opinion, however, I'd like to assemble a small fund of knowledge on the topic. Such would include AVPU's history and origins. I'm finding them elusive. Probably says much about the subject.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=200291812-20022002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=200291812-20022002>Thanks anyhow.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=200291812-20022002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=200291812-20022002>Pret</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Karim Brohi [mailto:karim@trauma.org]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 19, 2002 6:33 PM<BR><B>To:</B> trauma-list@trauma.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: AVPU trivia<BR><BR></DIV></FONT> <DIV><SPAN class=067233023-19022002><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>I thought AVPU had died and gone to heaven. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=067233023-19022002><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>It was murdered in its sleep by the more robust and powerful Glasgow Coma Scale.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=067233023-19022002><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=067233023-19022002><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>AVPU is essentially a bastardised GCS - and the weakest components of it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=067233023-19022002><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>If you wanted to trim the GCS (and why would you - it only takes 5 seconds) you'd limit it to Best Motor Response (in the upper limb)</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=067233023-19022002><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=067233023-19022002><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>AVPU is dead and gone. Let it rest in peace.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=067233023-19022002><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=067233023-19022002><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>Karim</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=067233023-19022002><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=067233023-19022002><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>PS. The Glasgow Coma Scale is so powerful it's even, apparently, used in Edinburgh</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=067233023-19022002><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=067233023-19022002></SPAN> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> trauma-list-admin@trauma.org [mailto:trauma-list-admin@trauma.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Rosann Juska<BR><B>Sent:</B> 19 February 2002 07:27<BR><B>To:</B> trauma-list@trauma.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: AVPU trivia<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#008080 face="Goudy Old Style">A-Alert</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#008080 face="Goudy Old Style">V-responds to Verbal</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#008080 face="Goudy Old Style">P- responds to Pain</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#008080 face="Goudy Old Style">U-unresponsive</FONT></DIV> <DIV>¸..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-<BR> ¸.·´ .·´¨¨))<BR> ((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:- <BR> -:¦:- ((¸¸.·´* <BR> Rosann Juska<BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #008080 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A href="mailto:pbjorn@emh.org" title=pbjorn@emh.org>Bjorn, Pret</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A href="mailto:trauma-list@trauma.org" title=trauma-list@trauma.org>Trauma-List (E-mail)</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 18, 2002 1:02 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> AVPU trivia</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=020215720-18022002>An oxymoron, I know...</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=020215720-18022002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=020215720-18022002>But does anyone know the origins of the AVPU mnemonic? Who originally recommended it? And where might I find even one evidence-based endorsement? I've been looking all day, suspect I know the answers, but I always test my assumptions against the wisdom of the List.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=020215720-18022002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=020215720-18022002>Thanks in Advance.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=020215720-18022002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=030133519-19052000>Pret Bjorn</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=030133519-19052000>Trauma Coordinator</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=030133519-19052000>EMMC Trauma Program</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=030133519-19052000>489 State Street</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=030133519-19052000>Bangor, ME 04401</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=030133519-19052000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=030133519-19052000>207.973.7260 (office)</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=030133519-19052000>207.973.7673 (fax)</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#800000 face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=030133519-19052000>207.941.5085 (voice pager)</SPAN></FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1BA0B.0C37E1C0--
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