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Drug (ab)use in Medicine?

Thomas Anthony Horan trauma-list@trauma.org
Sat, 15 Jun 2002 10:34:58 -0300


Dear David,
I recognize that you do not see the obvious inconsistency. Alcohol is =
the
greater social ill and greater danger on the job. why do you think it =
is
logical to treat abuse differently for one substance than the other?
Tom

> ----------
> De: 	Dave Adler EMT-P[SMTP:daveadler_emtp@msn.com]
> Responder: 	trauma-list@trauma.org
> Enviada: 	S=E1bado, 15 de Junho de 2002 08:04
> Para: 	trauma-list@trauma.org
> Assunto: 	RE: Drug (ab)use in Medicine?
>=20
> I see no inconsistency, other than perhaps that demonstrated by a
> medical professional who takes the stance that illegal drug use is =
ok,
> so long as you're not shooting up on the job.
>=20
> I think I've been pretty clear on the reason for the different =
treatment
> of alcohol and illegal drugs.  Is it your contention that it's
> acceptable for a medic/nurse/doctor to use illegal substances?
> Personally, I have no interest in working with or associating with =
drug
> users.  Someone used the phrase "...sneaking around like criminals."
> Very accurate, since that's exactly what they are.
>=20
> I have an even stronger aversion to being treated by someone,
> credentials and background notwithstanding, who was high as a kite =
the
> night before on God knows what.
>=20
> Dave Adler, EMT-P
> Editor, Prehospital Perspective Magazine
> www.prehospital-perspective.com
> adler@prehospital-perspective.com=20
> =20
> =20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: trauma-list-admin@trauma.org
> [mailto:trauma-list-admin@trauma.org]
> > On Behalf Of Thomas Anthony Horan
> > Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 7:04 AM
> > To: 'trauma-list@trauma.org'
> > Subject: RE: Drug (ab)use in Medicine?
> >=20
> > David,
> > As ERF correctly points out, your policies are inconsistent and as =
my
> hero
> > Spock would say "illogical"
> > Tom
> >=20
> > > ----------
> > > From: 	Dave Adler EMT-P[SMTP:daveadler_emtp@msn.com]
> > > Reply To: 	trauma-list@trauma.org
> > > Sent: 	Quarta-feira, 12 de Junho de 2002 20:58
> > > To: 	trauma-list@trauma.org
> > > Subject: 	RE: Drug (ab)use in Medicine?
> > >
> > > Tom,
> > >
> > > It's clear you misunderstood my response.  It's also clear that =
we
> each
> > > have strong-held opinions on this issue.  If you'd like to =
continue
> the
> > > debate, we can take it off-list, since as Walter correctly points
> out,
> > > it's not a trauma subject.
> > >
> > > Dave Adler, EMT-P
> > > Editor, Prehospital Perspective Magazine
> > > www.prehospital-perspective.com
> > > adler@prehospital-perspective.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: trauma-list-admin@trauma.org
> > > [mailto:trauma-list-admin@trauma.org]
> > > > On Behalf Of Thomas Anthony Horan
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 6:40 AM
> > > > To: 'trauma-list@trauma.org'
> > > > Subject: RE: Drug (ab)use in Medicine?
> > > >
> > > > Dear Dave,
> > > >
> > > > Your response as I interpret it is no, i.e. there are no random
> > > > breathalyzers. The rationale you cite is based on faulty law =
not
> > > medicine
> > > > nor good sense. Random "smelling" is not the same as random
> testing.
> > > >
> > > > 	"Reporting to work while under the influence is certainly an
> > > > exercise of
> > > > > bad judgment."
> > > > >
> > > > Although alcohol is legal with in limits, it is more than bad
> judgment
> > > to
> > > > be
> > > > drunk on the job. You departmental standards and your defense =
of
> them
> > > > demonstrate a distinct lack of appreciation of the danger to =
the
> > > public.
> > > > The
> > > > issue is not the laws, but a failure of rational response to =
the
> most
> > > > common
> > > > intoxicant threat to public well being from alcohol.
> > > >
> > > > Yours truly
> > > > Tom
> > > > > ----------
> > > > > From: 	Dave Adler EMT-P[SMTP:daveadler_emtp@msn.com]
> > > > > Reply To: 	trauma-list@trauma.org
> > > > > Sent: 	Quarta-feira, 12 de Junho de 2002 02:41
> > > > > To: 	trauma-list@trauma.org
> > > > > Subject: 	RE: Drug (ab)use in Medicine?
> > > > >
> > > > > Since you asked- if I smell alcohol on one of my officers, I =
can
> > > order a
> > > > > breathalyzer per policy.  If it's positive, he'll certainly =
be
> > > > > suspended, and possibly fired.  If he's been driving, and =
he's
> over
> > > the
> > > > > limit he'll be charged.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, it's important to draw a distinction here- alcohol =
is
> > > legal.
> > > > > Reporting to work while under the influence is certainly an
> exercise
> > > of
> > > > > bad judgment.  Marijuana is illegal, and possessing or using =
it
> > > isn't
> > > > > simply bad judgment it's a crime.  Big difference.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave Adler, EMT-P
> > > > > Editor, Prehospital Perspective Magazine
> > > > > www.prehospital-perspective.com
> > > > > adler@prehospital-perspective.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: trauma-list-admin@trauma.org
> > > > > [mailto:trauma-list-admin@trauma.org]
> > > > > > On Behalf Of Thomas Anthony Horan
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 6:37 AM
> > > > > > To: 'trauma-list@trauma.org'
> > > > > > Subject: RE: Drug (ab)use in Medicine?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dear Dave
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Does your department also do random breathalyzers on =
officers
> and
> > > are
> > > > > the
> > > > > > occasional positive tests followed by instant dismissal no
> > > questions
> > > > > > asked?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tom Horan
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----------
> > > > > > > From: 	Dave Adler EMT-P[SMTP:daveadler_emtp@msn.com]
> > > > > > > Reply To: 	trauma-list@trauma.org
> > > > > > > Sent: 	Ter=E7a-feira, 11 de Junho de 2002 02:05
> > > > > > > To: 	trauma-list@trauma.org
> > > > > > > Subject: 	RE: Drug (ab)use in Medicine?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Andrew wrote: Never seen anybody injured while fighting =
with
> a
> > > man
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > marijuana, or anyone killed by a man driving his car =
while
> > > 'stoned'.
> > > > > > > Seen thousands of people injured or killed because of
> alcohol.
> > > Lets
> > > > > get
> > > > > > > that into perspective!!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Andy,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I want to move to wherever you live.  Here, I see those =
two
> > > things
> > > > > > > weekly, some weeks daily.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've made 30 or so DUI arrests this year (I'm a full-time
> police
> > > > > > > sergeant in Philadelphia).  In 13 of those cases, =
marijuana
> has
> > > been
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > intoxicant.  Of those 13, 5 have involved accidents with
> > > injuries.
> > > > > You
> > > > > > > don't even want to know the number of assaults I've =
handled
> > > where
> > > > > > > marijuana has been a factor.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The notion that marijuana is a harmless, or less-harmful,
> drug
> > > is a
> > > > > > > fallacy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Of course, all other arguments aside, there is one that =
is
> > > > > irrefutable.
> > > > > > > Marijuana is illegal in my neck of the woods.  Those in a
> > > position
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > public trust cannot fail to abide by the law and expect =
to
> > > maintain
> > > > > > > their positions.  By way of example, if you get caught =
using
> in
> > > my
> > > > > > > service (and we do frequent, random drug testing) you're
> fired.
> > > No
> > > > > > > questions asked.  Not to mention that a conviction for a
> drug
> > > > > offense
> > > > > > > can cost someone their license/certification.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dave Adler, EMT-P
> > > > > > > Editor, Prehospital Perspective Magazine
> > > > > > > www.prehospital-perspective.com
> > > > > > > adler@prehospital-perspective.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: trauma-list-admin@trauma.org
> > > > > > > [mailto:trauma-list-admin@trauma.org]
> > > > > > > > On Behalf Of andrew frazer
> > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 3:30 PM
> > > > > > > > To: trauma-list@trauma.org
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Drug (ab)use in Medicine?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >From: "Cotton, Chris (SAAS)"
> > > <cotton.chris@saambulance.com.au>
> > > > > > > > >Reply-To: trauma-list@trauma.org
> > > > > > > > >To: "'trauma-list@trauma.org'" =
<trauma-list@trauma.org>
> > > > > > > > >Subject: Drug (ab)use in Medicine?
> > > > > > > > >Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 16:11:07 +0930
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >......... I turn the lights off, light some incense,
> stoke my
> > > > > pipe
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > > >taken on a musical journey for an hour. Hey - it works
> for
> > > > > > > > me.............
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Chris - just what do you put in that pipe?   :)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >John
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Dr John L Holmes
> > > > > > > > >Director Emergency Medicine
> > > > > > > > >Mater Hospitals, Brisbane, Australia
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Hmmmm, i could give the boring answer, or one that =
might
> > > > > stimulate
> > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > >discussion, and perhaps even debate. I do this not
> > > necessarily as
> > > > > an
> > > > > > > > >advocate of what follows, but in the interest of =
seeing
> how
> > > other
> > > > > > > trauma
> > > > > > > > >players view the topic. We can be lame and ignore it, =
or
> we
> > > can
> > > > > look
> > > > > > > at
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > >and discuss it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Hypothetically, suppose i said it was marijuana that i
> put in
> > > the
> > > > > > > pipe;
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >that i did it because i found it stimulating to my
> musical
> > > ear,
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > > >increased
> > > > > > > > >my clarity of thought and i enjoyed the sensation of
> being
> > > mildly
> > > > > > > stoned
> > > > > > > > >OCCASIONALLY? Would one cite studies that =
categorically
> > > denied
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > >might be a desireable side effect in some people?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Would people start immediately citing references to
> studies
> > > that
> > > > > > > showed
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >deleterious effects of the drug? Would they then also =
do
> the
> > > same
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > PDI
> > > > > > > > >inhibitors like caffeine, or other epidemiological
> studies
> > > that
> > > > > > > showed
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >effects of alcohol and tobacco and their impacts on
> society?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Would one then dare ask how many EMS workers use
> marijuana
> > > (or
> > > > > other
> > > > > > > > drugs)
> > > > > > > > >occasionally, and how many of them may infact have =
spent
> > > longer
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > job
> > > > > > > > >because they employed a behaviour that helped them =
take
> time
> > > out
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > >jobs occasionally and gave them "stress relief" =
perhaps.
> > > Their
> > > > > > > equivalent
> > > > > > > > >of
> > > > > > > > >the Theatre, gardening or a concert perhaps?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Remember that this is only hypothetical, so please =
don't
> > > shoot
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >messenger
> > > > > > > > >for asking legitimate questions and bringing up
> discussion
> > > that
> > > > > > > examines
> > > > > > > > >drug use by EMS workers. I know a lot of people in the
> EMS
> > > > > industry
> > > > > > > who
> > > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > >use different drugs, both legitimate and illicit
> > > occasionally.
> > > > > > > > >Understanding
> > > > > > > > >what they use and a having a responsible attitude to
> their
> > > use,
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > >eyes does not necessarily correlate as an issue for =
most
> of
> > > them.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Regards,
> > > > > > > > >Chris Cotton
> > > > > > > > >Intensive Care Paramedic.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >--
> > > > > > > > >trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
> > > > > > > > >To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
> > > > > > > > >http://www.trauma.org/traumalist.html
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Never seen anybody injured while fighting with a man on
> > > marijuana,
> > > > > or
> > > > > > > > anyone
> > > > > > > > killed by a man driving his car while 'stoned'. Seen
> thousands
> > > of
> > > > > > > people
> > > > > > > > injured or killed because of alcohol. Lets get that =
into
> > > > > perspective!!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Andy. (Not a user!) Casualty Nurse.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your
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> > > > > > > >
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