List Archives

Sat, 15 Jun 2002 07:04:03 -0400

I see no inconsistency, other than perhaps that demonstrated by a
medical professional who takes the stance that illegal drug use is ok,
so long as you're not shooting up on the job.

I think I've been pretty clear on the reason for the different treatment
of alcohol and illegal drugs.  Is it your contention that it's
acceptable for a medic/nurse/doctor to use illegal substances?
Personally, I have no interest in working with or associating with drug
users.  Someone used the phrase "...sneaking around like criminals."
Very accurate, since that's exactly what they are.

I have an even stronger aversion to being treated by someone,
credentials and background notwithstanding, who was high as a kite the
night before on God knows what.

Dave Adler, EMT-P
Editor, Prehospital Perspective Magazine
www.prehospital-perspective.com
adler@prehospital-perspective.com=20
=20
=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: trauma-list-admin@trauma.org
[mailto:trauma-list-admin@trauma.org]
> On Behalf Of Thomas Anthony Horan
> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 7:04 AM
> To: 'trauma-list@trauma.org'
> Subject: RE: Drug (ab)use in Medicine?
>=20
> David,
> As ERF correctly points out, your policies are inconsistent and as my
hero
> Spock would say "illogical"
> Tom
>=20
> > ----------
> > From: 	Dave Adler EMT-P[SMTP:daveadler_emtp@msn.com]
> > Reply To: 	trauma-list@trauma.org
> > Sent: 	Quarta-feira, 12 de Junho de 2002 20:58
> > To: 	trauma-list@trauma.org
> > Subject: 	RE: Drug (ab)use in Medicine?
> >
> > Tom,
> >
> > It's clear you misunderstood my response.  It's also clear that we
each
> > have strong-held opinions on this issue.  If you'd like to continue
the
> > debate, we can take it off-list, since as Walter correctly points
out,
> > it's not a trauma subject.
> >
> > Dave Adler, EMT-P
> > Editor, Prehospital Perspective Magazine
> > www.prehospital-perspective.com
> > adler@prehospital-perspective.com
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: trauma-list-admin@trauma.org
> > [mailto:trauma-list-admin@trauma.org]
> > > On Behalf Of Thomas Anthony Horan
> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 6:40 AM
> > > To: 'trauma-list@trauma.org'
> > > Subject: RE: Drug (ab)use in Medicine?
> > >
> > > Dear Dave,
> > >
> > > Your response as I interpret it is no, i.e. there are no random
> > > breathalyzers. The rationale you cite is based on faulty law not
> > medicine
> > > nor good sense. Random "smelling" is not the same as random
testing.
> > >
> > > 	"Reporting to work while under the influence is certainly an
> > > exercise of
> > > > bad judgment."
> > > >
> > > Although alcohol is legal with in limits, it is more than bad
judgment
> > to
> > > be
> > > drunk on the job. You departmental standards and your defense of
them
> > > demonstrate a distinct lack of appreciation of the danger to the
> > public.
> > > The
> > > issue is not the laws, but a failure of rational response to the
most
> > > common
> > > intoxicant threat to public well being from alcohol.
> > >
> > > Yours truly
> > > Tom
> > > > ----------
> > > > From: 	Dave Adler EMT-P[SMTP:daveadler_emtp@msn.com]
> > > > Reply To: 	trauma-list@trauma.org
> > > > Sent: 	Quarta-feira, 12 de Junho de 2002 02:41
> > > > To: 	trauma-list@trauma.org
> > > > Subject: 	RE: Drug (ab)use in Medicine?
> > > >
> > > > Since you asked- if I smell alcohol on one of my officers, I can
> > order a
> > > > breathalyzer per policy.  If it's positive, he'll certainly be
> > > > suspended, and possibly fired.  If he's been driving, and he's
over
> > the
> > > > limit he'll be charged.
> > > >
> > > > However, it's important to draw a distinction here- alcohol is
> > legal.
> > > > Reporting to work while under the influence is certainly an
exercise
> > of
> > > > bad judgment.  Marijuana is illegal, and possessing or using it
> > isn't
> > > > simply bad judgment it's a crime.  Big difference.
> > > >
> > > > Dave Adler, EMT-P
> > > > Editor, Prehospital Perspective Magazine
> > > > www.prehospital-perspective.com
> > > > adler@prehospital-perspective.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: trauma-list-admin@trauma.org
> > > > [mailto:trauma-list-admin@trauma.org]
> > > > > On Behalf Of Thomas Anthony Horan
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 6:37 AM
> > > > > To: 'trauma-list@trauma.org'
> > > > > Subject: RE: Drug (ab)use in Medicine?
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear Dave
> > > > >
> > > > > Does your department also do random breathalyzers on officers
and
> > are
> > > > the
> > > > > occasional positive tests followed by instant dismissal no
> > questions
> > > > > asked?
> > > > >
> > > > > Tom Horan
> > > > >
> > > > > > ----------
> > > > > > From: 	Dave Adler EMT-P[SMTP:daveadler_emtp@msn.com]
> > > > > > Reply To: 	trauma-list@trauma.org
> > > > > > Sent: 	Ter=E7a-feira, 11 de Junho de 2002 02:05
> > > > > > To: 	trauma-list@trauma.org
> > > > > > Subject: 	RE: Drug (ab)use in Medicine?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Andrew wrote: Never seen anybody injured while fighting with
a
> > man
> > > > on
> > > > > > marijuana, or anyone killed by a man driving his car while
> > 'stoned'.
> > > > > > Seen thousands of people injured or killed because of
alcohol.
> > Lets
> > > > get
> > > > > > that into perspective!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Andy,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I want to move to wherever you live.  Here, I see those two
> > things
> > > > > > weekly, some weeks daily.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've made 30 or so DUI arrests this year (I'm a full-time
police
> > > > > > sergeant in Philadelphia).  In 13 of those cases, marijuana
has
> > been
> > > > the
> > > > > > intoxicant.  Of those 13, 5 have involved accidents with
> > injuries.
> > > > You
> > > > > > don't even want to know the number of assaults I've handled
> > where
> > > > > > marijuana has been a factor.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The notion that marijuana is a harmless, or less-harmful,
drug
> > is a
> > > > > > fallacy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Of course, all other arguments aside, there is one that is
> > > > irrefutable.
> > > > > > Marijuana is illegal in my neck of the woods.  Those in a
> > position
> > > > of
> > > > > > public trust cannot fail to abide by the law and expect to
> > maintain
> > > > > > their positions.  By way of example, if you get caught using
in
> > my
> > > > > > service (and we do frequent, random drug testing) you're
fired.
> > No
> > > > > > questions asked.  Not to mention that a conviction for a
drug
> > > > offense
> > > > > > can cost someone their license/certification.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dave Adler, EMT-P
> > > > > > Editor, Prehospital Perspective Magazine
> > > > > > www.prehospital-perspective.com
> > > > > > adler@prehospital-perspective.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: trauma-list-admin@trauma.org
> > > > > > [mailto:trauma-list-admin@trauma.org]
> > > > > > > On Behalf Of andrew frazer
> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 3:30 PM
> > > > > > > To: trauma-list@trauma.org
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Drug (ab)use in Medicine?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >From: "Cotton, Chris (SAAS)"
> > <cotton.chris@saambulance.com.au>
> > > > > > > >Reply-To: trauma-list@trauma.org
> > > > > > > >To: "'trauma-list@trauma.org'" <trauma-list@trauma.org>
> > > > > > > >Subject: Drug (ab)use in Medicine?
> > > > > > > >Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 16:11:07 +0930
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >......... I turn the lights off, light some incense,
stoke my
> > > > pipe
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > >taken on a musical journey for an hour. Hey - it works
for
> > > > > > > me.............
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Chris - just what do you put in that pipe?   :)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >John
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Dr John L Holmes
> > > > > > > >Director Emergency Medicine
> > > > > > > >Mater Hospitals, Brisbane, Australia
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Hmmmm, i could give the boring answer, or one that might
> > > > stimulate
> > > > > > some
> > > > > > > >discussion, and perhaps even debate. I do this not
> > necessarily as
> > > > an
> > > > > > > >advocate of what follows, but in the interest of seeing
how
> > other
> > > > > > trauma
> > > > > > > >players view the topic. We can be lame and ignore it, or
we
> > can
> > > > look
> > > > > > at
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > >and discuss it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Hypothetically, suppose i said it was marijuana that i
put in
> > the
> > > > > > pipe;
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > >that i did it because i found it stimulating to my
musical
> > ear,
> > > > it
> > > > > > > >increased
> > > > > > > >my clarity of thought and i enjoyed the sensation of
being
> > mildly
> > > > > > stoned
> > > > > > > >OCCASIONALLY? Would one cite studies that categorically
> > denied
> > > > that
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > > >might be a desireable side effect in some people?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Would people start immediately citing references to
studies
> > that
> > > > > > showed
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >deleterious effects of the drug? Would they then also do
the
> > same
> > > > for
> > > > > > PDI
> > > > > > > >inhibitors like caffeine, or other epidemiological
studies
> > that
> > > > > > showed
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >effects of alcohol and tobacco and their impacts on
society?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Would one then dare ask how many EMS workers use
marijuana
> > (or
> > > > other
> > > > > > > drugs)
> > > > > > > >occasionally, and how many of them may infact have spent
> > longer
> > > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > job
> > > > > > > >because they employed a behaviour that helped them take
time
> > out
> > > > from
> > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > >jobs occasionally and gave them "stress relief" perhaps.
> > Their
> > > > > > equivalent
> > > > > > > >of
> > > > > > > >the Theatre, gardening or a concert perhaps?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Remember that this is only hypothetical, so please don't
> > shoot
> > > > the
> > > > > > > >messenger
> > > > > > > >for asking legitimate questions and bringing up
discussion
> > that
> > > > > > examines
> > > > > > > >drug use by EMS workers. I know a lot of people in the
EMS
> > > > industry
> > > > > > who
> > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > >use different drugs, both legitimate and illicit
> > occasionally.
> > > > > > > >Understanding
> > > > > > > >what they use and a having a responsible attitude to
their
> > use,
> > > > in
> > > > > > their
> > > > > > > >eyes does not necessarily correlate as an issue for most
of
> > them.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Regards,
> > > > > > > >Chris Cotton
> > > > > > > >Intensive Care Paramedic.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >--
> > > > > > > >trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
> > > > > > > >To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
> > > > > > > >http://www.trauma.org/traumalist.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Never seen anybody injured while fighting with a man on
> > marijuana,
> > > > or
> > > > > > > anyone
> > > > > > > killed by a man driving his car while 'stoned'. Seen
thousands
> > of
> > > > > > people
> > > > > > > injured or killed because of alcohol. Lets get that into
> > > > perspective!!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Andy. (Not a user!) Casualty Nurse.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your
photos:
> > > > > > > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
> > > > > > > To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
> > > > > > > http://www.trauma.org/traumalist.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
> > > > > > To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
> > > > > > http://www.trauma.org/traumalist.html
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
> > > > > To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
> > > > > http://www.trauma.org/traumalist.html
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
> > > > To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
> > > > http://www.trauma.org/traumalist.html
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
> > > To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
> > > http://www.trauma.org/traumalist.html
> >
> > --
> > trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
> > To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
> > http://www.trauma.org/traumalist.html
> >
>=20
> --
> trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
> To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
> http://www.trauma.org/traumalist.html

List Archives

For your convenience, find the Trauma List Archive Below

Drug (ab)use in Medicine?