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stress(semi-long)
Terry Dinerman trauma-list@trauma.orgThu, 6 Jun 2002 10:32:18 -0700
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C20D45.6F2F71C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ms. R- As is often the case, you can only get to the core of an issue through = individual dialog. You sound like a considerate, committed EMS educator = and I would LOVE to continue a dialog offline.=20 I have a lot to learn, and any new tricks I can bag will benefit my = students. Give me a holler - dinerman@computon.net=20 Regards! T.A. Dinerman EMTP ----- Original Message -----=20 From: KPCRP@aol.com=20 To: trauma-list@trauma.org=20 Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 6:54 AM Subject: Re: stress(semi-long) In a message dated 6/5/2002 3:00:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, = dinerman@computron.net writes: <<Dear Ms. Ricky- What do you do with the students who just don't have the stamina to = make the cut? If, when you have tried your entire bag of tricks and = still cannot get that person over the hump?>> I spend time working with them outside the classroom in attempts to = remediate, or I get another Instructor involved to see if they relate = better to them, and if that doesn't work, I tell them the bad news. If = they are already a practicing "***" of any flavor,=20 I suggest they try again in another course. If they are brand new, I = suggest they might want to rethink their career choice and then help = them get vocational counseling (I've only had to do this three times.); = or, if things are overwhelming them in their personal life, and they = simply can't dedicate the time necessary to succeed,=20 I suggest they try get address those things first and come back late = to try again. =20 <<I am going to have some tough standards, and they are quite = simple: I expect my graduates to be competent ENTRY-LEVEL Paramedics, = ready for entry into the graduate school of emergency medicine known as = AN AMBULANCE. I do not expect my grads to be Dr. Debakey (or Dr. = Maddox). Just be a competent member of a team.>> I didn't think we were talking about new students in the original = discussion. I believe it was about stress levels in already practicing = people, taking their alphabit courses. However, neither do *I* expect = new students to practice at the level of a Dr. Mattox, Fry, Matera, = Bledsoe, etc. (I've been practicing for 23 years and *I'm* not there, = either<G>) = =20 <<If a Student cannot come up to my (an my institutions) = expectations, if I wouldn't want a particular student treating my = Mother, how can I justify NOT sending that student for evaluation and = remediation?=20 And if remediation fails, how can I justify NOT FAILING such a = student?>> If you want an argument, you will have to pick another subject, sir. = I use the same criteria. <<<snip>=20 My job is to teach these folks critical thinking skills under as = life-like a set of conditions as I can re-create, so they are prepared = to act competently at that 3 car pile-up at 3 am.=20 How do you set standards for this? My students can kill the = mannequins as many times as it takes to get their skills up to par, but = they have to be ready to work on flesh and blood when I am done with = them. >> Again, no argument. That's our job. MY issues are with current = practitioners who come into an alphabit class - especially Refreshers - = and cannot even demonstrate knowledge of the basics like cardiac = anatomy, never mind the properties of the drugs they are out there = already putting into patients. It's THOSE students who seem to stress = more than anybody and for good reason. IMHO - they've been fooling = themselves and their patients and they are about to get "caught". =20 If students are prepared and mentored well, I don't see the need for = parlayzing stress in the classroom setting for new or experienced = students. Finally, if you'd like to continue this, I suggest we take it = off line. I do think, however, you misread my intent and if you review = it, I hope you will find we are more in agreement than you think. If I = did not make myself clear, you (and the list) have my apologies. It's time to move on - I'm going back to lurking, again<G>. Respectfully, K.P. Rickey NREMT-P; EMS I/C and other alphabits NH/USA ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C20D45.6F2F71C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Ms. R-</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">As is often the case, you can only get = to the=20 core of an issue through individual dialog. You sound like a = considerate,=20 committed EMS educator and I would LOVE to continue a dialog=20 offline. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"> I have a lot to learn, and any = new tricks=20 I can bag will benefit my students.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Give me a holler - <A=20 href=3D"mailto:dinerman@computon.net">dinerman@computon.net</A> = </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Regards!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">T.A. Dinerman EMTP</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3DKPCRP@aol.com = href=3D"mailto:KPCRP@aol.com">KPCRP@aol.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dtrauma-list@trauma.org=20 href=3D"mailto:trauma-list@trauma.org">trauma-list@trauma.org</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 06, 2002 = 6:54=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: = stress(semi-long)</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 = face=3DArial size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">In a message dated 6/5/2002 3:00:59 PM Eastern = Standard=20 Time, <A = href=3D"mailto:dinerman@computron.net">dinerman@computron.net</A>=20 writes:<BR><BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: = #ffffff"=20 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20 TYPE=3D"CITE"><<Dear Ms. Ricky-<BR>What do you do with the = students who=20 just don't have the stamina to make the cut? If, when you have = tried=20 your entire bag of tricks and still cannot get that person over the=20 hump?>></FONT><FONT lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: = #ffffff"=20 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 = size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">I spend time working with them outside the = classroom in=20 attempts to remediate, or I get another Instructor involved to see if = they=20 relate better to them, and if that doesn't work, I tell them the bad=20 news. If they are already a practicing "***" of any flavor, = <BR>I=20 suggest they try again in another course. If they are brand new, = I=20 suggest they might want to rethink their career choice and then help = them get=20 vocational counseling </FONT><FONT lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: = #ffffff"=20 face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">(I've only = had to do this=20 three times.)</FONT><FONT lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = face=3DArial=20 color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">; or, if things are = overwhelming them=20 in their personal life, and they simply can't dedicate the time = necessary to=20 succeed, <BR>I suggest they try get address those things first and = come back=20 late to try again. </FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 = size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"> </FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3D"Comic Sans MS" = color=3D#000000 size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20 TYPE=3D"CITE"><BR><<I am going to have some tough standards, and = they=20 are quite simple: I expect my graduates to be competent = <U>ENTRY-LEVEL</U>=20 Paramedics, ready for entry into the graduate school of emergency = medicine=20 known as <U>AN AMBULANCE</U>. I do not expect my grads to be = Dr.=20 Debakey (or Dr. Maddox). Just be a competent member of a=20 team.>></FONT><FONT lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: = #ffffff"=20 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 = size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">I didn't think we were talking about new students = in the=20 original discussion. I believe it was about stress levels in = already=20 practicing people, taking their alphabit courses. However, = neither do=20 *I* expect new students to practice at the level of a Dr. Mattox, Fry, = Matera,=20 Bledsoe, etc. (I've been practicing for 23 years and *I'm* not = there,=20 either<G>) </FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3D"Comic Sans MS" = color=3D#000000 size=3D2=20 = FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"> &= nbsp; &n= bsp; &nb= sp; &nbs= p;  = ; = &= nbsp; =20 <BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = face=3D"Comic Sans MS"=20 color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20 TYPE=3D"CITE"><<If a Student cannot come up to my (an my = institutions)=20 expectations, if I wouldn't want a particular student treating my = Mother,=20 how can I justify NOT sending that student for evaluation and = remediation?=20 <BR><BR>And if remediation fails, how can I justify NOT FAILING such = a=20 student?>><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: = #ffffff"=20 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 = size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">If you want an argument, you will have to pick = another=20 subject, sir. I use the same criteria.</FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3D"Comic Sans MS" = color=3D#000000 size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: = #ffffff"=20 face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3D"Comic Sans MS" = color=3D#000000 size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"><<<snip>=20 <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20 TYPE=3D"CITE">My job is to teach these folks critical thinking skills = under as=20 life-like a set of conditions as I can re-create, so they are = prepared to=20 act competently at that 3 car pile-up at 3 am. <BR><BR>How do you = set=20 standards for this? My students can kill the mannequins as = many times=20 as it takes to get their skills up to par, but they have to be ready = to work=20 on flesh and blood when I am done with them. = >></FONT><FONT=20 lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3D"Comic Sans MS" = color=3D#000000=20 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR></FONT><FONT = lang=3D0=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 = size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">Again, no argument. That's our job. = MY issues=20 are with current practitioners who come into an alphabit class - = especially=20 Refreshers - and cannot even demonstrate knowledge of the basics like = cardiac=20 anatomy, never mind the properties of the drugs they are out there = already=20 putting into patients. It's THOSE students who seem to stress = more than=20 anybody and for good reason. IMHO - they've been fooling = themselves and=20 their patients and they are about to get "caught". <BR><BR>If = students=20 are prepared and mentored well, I don't see the need for parlayzing = stress in=20 the classroom setting for new or experienced students. Finally,=20 </FONT><FONT lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DArial = color=3D#000000=20 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">if you'd like to continue this, I = suggest we take it=20 off line. I do think, however, you misread my intent and if you = review=20 it, I hope you will find we are more in agreement than you = think. If I=20 did not make myself clear, you (and the list) have my = apologies.<BR><BR>It's=20 time to move on - I'm going back to lurking,=20 again<G>.<BR><BR>Respectfully,<BR><BR>K.P. Rickey<BR>NREMT-P; = EMS=20 I/C<BR>and other alphabits<BR>NH/USA<BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3D"Comic Sans MS" = color=3D#000000 size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: = #ffffff"=20 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 = FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"><BR><BR></FONT><FONT=20 lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DArial = color=3D#000000 size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C20D45.6F2F71C0--
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