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Home > List Archives

stress(semi-long)

trauma-list@trauma.org trauma-list@trauma.org
Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:54:59 EDT


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In a message dated 6/5/2002 3:00:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
dinerman@computron.net writes:


> <<Dear Ms. Ricky-
>  What do you do with the students who just don't have the stamina to make 
> the cut?  If, when you have tried your entire bag of tricks and still 
> cannot get that person over the hump?>>

I spend time working with them outside the classroom in attempts to 
remediate, or I get another Instructor involved to see if they relate better 
to them, and if that doesn't work, I tell them the bad news.  If they are 
already a practicing "***" of any flavor, 
I suggest they try again in another course.  If they are brand new, I suggest 
they might want to rethink their career choice and then help them get 
vocational counseling (I've only had to do this three times.); or, if things 
are overwhelming them in their personal life, and they simply can't dedicate 
the time necessary to succeed, 
I suggest they try get address those things first and come back late to try 
again.     
>  
> <<I am going to have some tough standards, and they are quite simple: I 
> expect my graduates to be competent ENTRY-LEVEL Paramedics, ready for entry 
> into the graduate school of emergency medicine known as AN AMBULANCE.  I do 
> not expect my grads to be Dr. Debakey (or Dr. Maddox). Just be a competent 
> member of a team.>>

I didn't think we were talking about new students in the original discussion. 
 I believe it was about stress levels in already practicing people, taking 
their alphabit courses.  However, neither do *I* expect new students to 
practice at the level of a Dr. Mattox, Fry, Matera, Bledsoe, etc.  (I've been 
practicing for 23 years and *I'm* not there, either<G>)                       
                                                                      

> <<If a Student cannot come up to my (an my institutions) expectations, if I 
> wouldn't want a particular student treating my Mother, how can I justify 
> NOT sending that student for evaluation and remediation? 
>  
> And if remediation fails, how can I justify NOT FAILING such a student?>>
> 
If you want an argument, you will have to pick another subject, sir.  I use 
the same criteria.

 <<<snip> > My job is to teach these folks critical thinking skills under as 
> life-like a set of conditions as I can re-create, so they are prepared to 
> act competently at that 3 car pile-up at 3 am. 
>  
> How do you set standards for this?  My students can kill the mannequins as 
> many times as it takes to get their skills up to par, but they have to be 
> ready to work on flesh and blood when I am done with them.  >>

Again, no argument.  That's our job.  MY issues are with current 
practitioners who come into an alphabit class - especially Refreshers - and 
cannot even demonstrate knowledge of the basics like cardiac anatomy, never 
mind the properties of the drugs they are out there already putting into 
patients.  It's THOSE students who seem to stress more than anybody and for 
good reason.  IMHO - they've been fooling themselves and their patients and 
they are about to get "caught".  

If students are prepared and mentored well, I don't see the need for 
parlayzing stress in the classroom setting for new or experienced students.  
Finally, if you'd like to continue this, I suggest we take it off line.  I do 
think, however, you misread my intent and if you review it, I hope you will 
find we are more in agreement than you think.  If I did not make myself 
clear, you (and the list) have my apologies.

It's time to move on - I'm going back to lurking, again<G>.

Respectfully,

K.P. Rickey
NREMT-P; EMS I/C
and other alphabits
NH/USA





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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 6/5/2002 3:00:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, dinerman@computron.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">&lt;&lt;Dear Ms. Ricky-<BR>
 What do you do with the students who just don't have the stamina to make the cut?&nbsp; If, when you have tried your entire bag of tricks and still cannot get that person over the hump?&gt;&gt;</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I spend time working with them outside the classroom in attempts to remediate, or I get another Instructor involved to see if they relate better to them, and if that doesn't work, I tell them the bad news.&nbsp; If they are already a practicing "***" of any flavor, <BR>
I suggest they try again in another course.&nbsp; If they are brand new, I suggest they might want to rethink their career choice and then help them get vocational counseling </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">(I've only had to do this three times.)</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">; or, if things are overwhelming them in their personal life, and they simply can't dedicate the time necessary to succeed, <BR>
I suggest they try get address those things first and come back late to try again.&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> <BR>
&lt;&lt;I am going to have some tough standards, and they are quite simple: I expect my graduates to be competent <U>ENTRY-LEVEL</U> Paramedics, ready for entry into the graduate school of emergency medicine known as <U>AN AMBULANCE</U>.&nbsp; I do not expect my grads to be Dr. Debakey (or Dr. Maddox). Just be a competent member of a team.&gt;&gt;</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I didn't think we were talking about new students in the original discussion.&nbsp; I believe it was about stress levels in already practicing people, taking their alphabit courses.&nbsp; However, neither do *I* expect new students to practice at the level of a Dr. Mattox, Fry, Matera, Bledsoe, etc.&nbsp; (I've been practicing for 23 years and *I'm* not there, either&lt;G&gt;)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">&lt;&lt;If a Student cannot come up to my (an my institutions) expectations, if I wouldn't want a particular student treating my Mother, how can I justify NOT sending that student for evaluation and remediation? <BR>
 <BR>
And if remediation fails, how can I justify NOT FAILING such a student?&gt;&gt;<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">If you want an argument, you will have to pick another subject, sir.&nbsp; I use the same criteria.</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"> &lt;&lt;&lt;snip&gt; <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">My job is to teach these folks critical thinking skills under as life-like a set of conditions as I can re-create, so they are prepared to act competently at that 3 car pile-up at 3 am. <BR>
 <BR>
How do you set standards for this?&nbsp; My students can kill the mannequins as many times as it takes to get their skills up to par, but they have to be ready to work on flesh and blood when I am done with them.&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Again, no argument.&nbsp; That's our job.&nbsp; MY issues are with current practitioners who come into an alphabit class - especially Refreshers - and cannot even demonstrate knowledge of the basics like cardiac anatomy, never mind the properties of the drugs they are out there already putting into patients.&nbsp; It's THOSE students who seem to stress more than anybody and for good reason.&nbsp; IMHO - they've been fooling themselves and their patients and they are about to get "caught".&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
If students are prepared and mentored well, I don't see the need for parlayzing stress in the classroom setting for new or experienced students.&nbsp; Finally, </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">if you'd like to continue this, I suggest we take it off line.&nbsp; I do think, however, you misread my intent and if you review it, I hope you will find we are more in agreement than you think.&nbsp; If I did not make myself clear, you (and the list) have my apologies.<BR>
<BR>
It's time to move on - I'm going back to lurking, again&lt;G&gt;.<BR>
<BR>
Respectfully,<BR>
<BR>
K.P. Rickey<BR>
NREMT-P; EMS I/C<BR>
and other alphabits<BR>
NH/USA<BR>
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<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
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