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Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:15:56 -0600

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I have a packet on my shelf. I ordered a sample and have read the
pamphlet that came with the product. The data that they present
(unpublished) in the "EMS Physicians monograph" talks about how it
stopped the bleeding 11 of 12 (92%) severed rabbit femoral arteries
while direct pressure stopped only 3 of 12 (25%) of bleeds. They also
talk about a human study comparing pressure alone to pressure plus
TraumaDEX. Pressure took 4 minutes to stop a bleed in a volunteer
forearm and TraumaDEX plus pressure took a shorter time. They never
actually present any data and a medline search is fruitless. The
Physician front-man (Mark h Ereth from Thoracic Anesthesiology at Mayo
clinic) does not seem to have published on this substance. 

I'm not yet convinced, but next time I have two rabbits with identically
bleeding femoral lacerations I will be sure to try it out. 

Andy Brainard

abrain@rt66.com

H: 505-771-0586

C: 505-220-7930

-----Original Message-----
From: trauma-list-admin@trauma.org [mailto:trauma-list-admin@trauma.org]
On Behalf Of stephanie staford
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 5:20 PM
To: trauma-list@trauma.org
Subject: RE: TraumaDex

sounds like fibbrin glue which we use in vascular surgery to seal any
leaks in anastamoses of grafts etc.  can lavage open wound
vigorously(sp?) and have the graft stay intact.  have not seen it used
as primary means to anastamose av, aa or vv grafts.  

fibrin glue used in trauma for hepatic resection secondary to blunt
trauma and often do not need to pack abd.  it is sticky and holds well,
but would like to see data for severed fem a and v. what do the reps for
this product cite? 

stephanie stafford, DO  

  DPadgett@sblhs.org wrote: 

>From what I've read, it's made of "flowable bio-inert,microporous
particlessyntesized to control porosity". They have a Web site:
traumadex.com.         I tend to agree with Dr. Fry-  pressure would
probably work a WHOLE lot better.  But, the military is also working on
a different type of hemostatic drssing, calledChitosan, among others.  I
for one would appreciate any info on these other products, as well.
Dave Padgett

-----Original Message-----
From: stephanie staford [mailto:sstafford1168@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 8:34 AM
To: trauma-list@trauma.org
Subject: Re: TraumaDex

is this trauma dex fibrin glue?  or an instrument? 

stephanie stafford, DO 

  DocRickFry@aol.com wrote: 

In a message dated 7/15/2002 5:54:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
DPadgett@sblhs.org writes:

<< I recently received a sample of a product called TraumaDex in the
mail. 
Its
literature claims it stops bleeding in a severed femoral artery and vein
in
about 60 seconds. I'm skeptical; anyone have any experience with this
product? Dave Padgett
>>
How ridiculous--you don't really believe in fairy tales, now, do you? I 
could do the same thing in 5 seconds with another miraculous
product--called 
my finger--or another one still, called a clamp! And--how much would you

like to bet, that these "miracles" of mine are a bit cheaper? Are we
really 
educated and experienced physicians on this list?
By the way--I have a magic bit of swampland I'd like to sell you!
ERF

--
trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG
To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:
http://www.trauma.org/traumalist.html

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<div class=3DSection1>

I have a packet on =
my shelf.
I ordered a sample and have read the pamphlet that came with the =
product. The
data that they present (unpublished) in the &quot;EMS Physicians
monograph&quot; talks about how it stopped the bleeding 11 of 12 (92%) =
severed
rabbit femoral arteries while direct pressure stopped only 3 of 12 (25%) =
of
bleeds. They also talk about a human study comparing pressure alone to =
pressure
plus TraumaDEX. Pressure took 4 minutes to stop a bleed in a volunteer =
forearm
and TraumaDEX plus pressure took a shorter time. They never actually =
present
any data and a medline search is fruitless. The Physician front-man =
(Mark h Ereth
from Thoracic Anesthesiology at Mayo clinic) does not seem to have =
published on
this substance.

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-autospace:none'><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Courier New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

I'm not yet =
convinced, but
next time I have two rabbits with identically bleeding femoral =
lacerations I
will be sure to try it out.

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Andy Brainard</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><a =
href=3D"mailto:abrain@rt66.com">abrain@rt66.com</a></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>H: 505-771-0586</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>C: 505-220-7930</span></font></p>

</div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in =
0in 4.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =
trauma-list-admin@trauma.org
[mailto:trauma-list-admin@trauma.org] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>stephanie staford<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> </span></font><font =
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Wednesday, July
 17, 2002</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>5:20 =
PM</span></font><font size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
trauma-list@trauma.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: =
TraumaDex</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>sounds
like fibbrin glue which we use in vascular surgery to seal any leaks in
anastamoses of grafts etc.&nbsp; can lavage&nbsp;open wound =
vigorously(sp?) and
have the graft stay intact.&nbsp; have not seen it used as primary means =
to
anastamose&nbsp;av, aa or vv grafts.&nbsp; </span></font></p>

fibrin
glue used in trauma&nbsp;for hepatic resection secondary to blunt trauma =
and
often do not need to pack abd.&nbsp; it is sticky and holds well, but =
would
like to see data&nbsp;for severed fem a and v. what do the reps for this
product cite?

<p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>stephanie
stafford, DO&nbsp; </span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp; </span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp; </span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp; <b><i><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>DPadgett@sblhs.org</span></i=
></b>
wrote: </span></font></p>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>

<div>

From what I've read, it's made of
&quot;flowable bio-inert,microporous particlessyntesized to control
porosity&quot;. They have a Web site:
traumadex.com.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I tend to =
agree
with Dr. Fry-&nbsp; pressure would probably work a WHOLE lot =
better.&nbsp; But,
the military is also working on a different type of hemostatic drssing,
calledChitosan, among others.&nbsp; I for one would appreciate any info =
on
these other products, as well.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Dave =
Padgett

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> stephanie staford
[mailto:sstafford1168@yahoo.com]<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> </span></font><font =
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Wednesday, July
 17, 2002</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>8:34 =
AM</span></font><font size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
trauma-list@trauma.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: =
TraumaDex</span></font></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>

is this
trauma dex fibrin glue?&nbsp; or an instrument?

<p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>stephanie
stafford, DO </span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp; <b><i><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>DocRickFry@aol.com</span></i=
></b>
wrote: </span></font></p>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>In a message dated </span></font>7/15/2002 5:54:11 PM Eastern =
Daylight Time, <br>
DPadgett@sblhs.org writes:<br>
<br>
&lt;&lt; I recently received a sample of a product called TraumaDex in =
the
mail. <br>
Its<br>
literature claims it stops bleeding in a severed femoral artery and vein =
in<br>
about 60 seconds. I'm skeptical; anyone have any experience with =
this<br>
product? Dave Padgett<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
How ridiculous--you don't really believe in fairy tales, now, do you? I =
<br>
could do the same thing in 5 seconds with another miraculous =
product--called <br>
my finger--or another one still, called a clamp! And--how much would you =
<br>
like to bet, that these &quot;miracles&quot; of mine are a bit cheaper? =
Are we
really <br>
educated and experienced physicians on this list?<br>
By the way--I have a magic bit of swampland I'd like to sell you!<br>
ERF<br>
<br>
--<br>
trauma-list : TRAUMA.ORG<br>
To change your settings or unsubscribe visit:<br>
http://www.trauma.org/traumalist.html</p>

</blockquote>

<p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D1 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

Do You =
Yahoo!? 
<a href=http://www.trauma.org/index.php/community/list/url/http:list.ftech.net/pipermail/trauma-list/2002-July/3D"http://autos.yahoo.com/">Yahoo! Autos</a> - Get free new car =
price
quotes

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D1 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

Do You =
Yahoo!? 
<a href=http://www.trauma.org/index.php/community/list/url/http:list.ftech.net/pipermail/trauma-list/2002-July/3D"http://autos.yahoo.com/">Yahoo! Autos</a> - Get free new car =
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